Finally removed inop light for analysis - Pentair light dated June 2004

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FloridaPoolGal

FloridaPoolGal

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Jan 8, 2016
119
Altamonte Springs, FL
Pool Size
20000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hello,

We purchased our home about a year ago with an existing inground pool. The pool light did not work during one of the pre-purchase walkthroughs so we asked for it to be fixed. It was operating during our final walkthrough before closing and for awhile after we purchased the house. Our pool is looking so good I really want to have a light so we finally pulled it out yesterday to take a closer look. Amazingly, there was only a small amount of algae in there

I have attached photos of all the parts of the light. Obviously, the light burned out due to water in the housing. Overall, the parts look pretty good but I will your advice regarding what to replace to make it watertight. The info on the housing indicates it was manufactured in June 2004. It is 120 V, 400W that uses an R-40 bulb with 1/2" cable.

The info on the housing says it had 30' of cable. There is barely enough cable to place the light onto the deck so I'm confused about the 30' of cable. There is some sort of electrical box looking thing about 8-10' away from the pool (see photos). Does the cable go back to that box? We have an on/off switch in the house and a breaker with GFI (looks new) on the side of the house by the pump (see photos).

Do I try to fix it or must I purchase a whole new light assembly?

 
That fixture looks like it is pretty good shape... well compared to mine that is also not working. Inspect that white seal for integrity. Is it cracked, cut or worn? Replacing that seal and installing again would be the first option and fairly inexpensive. Sometimes these housings leak on the back where the cord enters the housing. You could manually submerge the light and look for air bubbles to determine if it leaks and where the source might be but sometimes they don't manifest until the light is turned on... Just be careful when reassembling to evenly tighten as best you can.
 
The gasket seems soft and pliable but I guess it wouldn't hurt to get a new one.

Okay, here's a question for you brilliant people out there! I'm pondering why the whole housing did not fill up with water. The light is below water so shouldn't it have filled completely?

Edit: I went out and looked at the housing again. It seems impossible for it to leak around the cord because of the filler that is in the bottom of the housing. Also, now that I was looking at the interior of the housing in bright sunlight, I can see what looks like a dribble line or two on the inside of the shiny housing.
 
The 30ft of cable goes through the hole at the back of your light's niche then back to the grey junction box you have pictured.

If you ever need to replace your light you would:

1. disconnect power

2. disconnect light cable at juntion box

3. pull light cable through from pool end (or cut light off at pool and and pull back, pulling new light cable).


The light housing is not designed to fill with water - water is kept away from the electricity. The niche/hole behind the light fills with water, and the conduit behind there (which connects back to the junction box) will also fill with water if it has not been plugged.

Hate to say it but I don't think your junction box is a pool junction box approved by National Electrical Codes.

I'm not sure why there is a green grounding cable outside of your j-box either.

Also, there should be an insulated ground green cable coming into the light niche in your pool - is that there.

The only reason I know this stuff is because I had similar issues with my own 10-year old Pentair pool light recently :-?

I replaced my light and made it all to code in the process.

ft.
 
familytr33 said:
The 30ft of cable goes through the hole at the back of your light's niche then back to the grey junction box you have pictured.

If you ever need to replace your light you would:

1. disconnect power

2. disconnect light cable at juntion box

3. pull light cable through from pool end (or cut light off at pool and and pull back, pulling new light cable).


The light housing is not designed to fill with water - water is kept away from the electricity. The niche/hole behind the light fills with water, and the conduit behind there (which connects back to the junction box) will also fill with water if it has not been plugged.

Hate to say it but I don't think your junction box is a pool junction box approved by National Electrical Codes.

I'm not sure why there is a green grounding cable outside of your j-box either.

Also, there should be an insulated ground green cable coming into the light niche in your pool - is that there.

The only reason I know this stuff is because I had similar issues with my own 10-year old Pentair pool light recently :-?

I replaced my light and made it all to code in the process.

ft.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a ground wire attached. I think they probably had to add the breaker and the GFI over by the pump to pass our local inspector.

 
gwegan said:
The ground wire connection must be covered by a listed potting compound (NEC 680(B)(4))

Wet Niche Potting Compound - 2135 - INYOPools.com


As stated above and that junction box does not comply with code. It must be a pool junction box like this:

Pentair Junction Box 78310700. Pentair 78310700.
Click to expand...

Should I be redoing the junction box? Is there a safety issue? Also, I did confirm there was a green ground wire coming out of the box. The pool was built with the home in 1974.

- - - Updated - - -

I purchased a new seal today that will be here tomorrow. I would like to test whether it's water tight with something other than the expensive 400W bulb. I have a 75W LED flood. Can I use that?

Would it be okay to test everything first outside the water since with LED bulb will not be getting hot like the 400W bulb (which I assumed was the reason the light had to be in the water to turn on)?
 
Generally we would recommend that you not test the gasket, just make sure you install it correctly the first time. The gaskets often don't fail immediately when incorrectly installed. It often takes a couple of days.

Yeah, you should replace the jbox. And I would cover the connection with the potting compound.
 
gwegan said:
Generally we would recommend that you not test the gasket, just make sure you install it correctly the first time. The gaskets often don't fail immediately when incorrectly installed. It often takes a couple of days.

Yeah, you should replace the jbox. And I would cover the connection with the potting compound.
Click to expand...

That wire loop securing device is a pain!



Is changing the box something best left to an electrician or is it something a homeowner can do?
 
If you have worked with nm conduit (plastic) before its really not that difficult. It looks like the Jbox was previously replaced. The white pipe is not to code. So something went wrong and someone replaced the JBox with a simple box and plain unlisted pvc (water pipe) . I wouldn't worry to much about the pvc. It looks like whoever did this also connected a bonding wire to the JBox. If that is what that is its not necessary. If you want to do it yourself let me know and we can walk through it.
 

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I was very curious what was inside the j-box so I took off the faceplate. Much to my surprise, the box was packed FULL of dirt! Yes, the expected wires/connections were there but they weren't initially visible because of the dirt! I pounded on the box and got most of the dirt out (well, sandy dirt since this is Florida) but it obviously has to be replaced. Bizarre!

 
Are you in a fire ant area?

They loved my old junction box.

You should be able to get a new j-b fro about 25 bucks shipped.

Something I picked up from the forum whilst doing this project was to use a j-box with least 1 inch openings (and use adapters as required) since you will need all the help you can get if/when you need to pull cables :p

ft.
 
familytr33 said:
Are you in a fire ant area?

They loved my old junction box.

You should be able to get a new j-b fro about 25 bucks shipped.

Something I picked up from the forum whilst doing this project was to use a j-box with least 1 inch openings (and use adapters as required) since you will need all the help you can get if/when you need to pull cables :p

ft.
Click to expand...

Yes, we do have fire ants. Hubby enjoys dropping those granules for them to munch on! My guess is the J-box has not been opened since 2004 (the date on the light).

The fuse/power for the light is by the pump which is at the west end of the pool. The J-box and light are at the east end of the pool. The interior switch for the light is at the south side of the pool. Does the switch inside the house also tie into the J-box? I didn't dig too deep into the box to tease out everything that was in there.
 
There are 2 conduits going up into your j-box (both should be buried at least 18 inches to meet code).

<<EDIT>>

One conduit should be from the light switch at your house. But I don't understand when you say you have power/fuse for the light at the pool pad, but he switch is inside your house. Please can you explain a little more?

<<END EDIT>>

The other conduit should connect to the back of your pool light niche.

The cable to the light is likely a black/white/green cables wrapped inside a black insulated cable.

The conduit back to the power source should contain 3 separate thin cables (black, white, green - if it has been done to code).

hth,

ft.
 
We have an electrician coming out this week to test all the wiring supplying power to the pool light. We have the wiring protection plan with our power company, Duke, and this visit is covered! I called Duke to create a work order for Ferran Services so I could get my 15% off labor for non-covered electrical service but the Duke rep said, "You've been on the program for over a year so wiring to your pool light is covered. We don't do any work in the pool but the wiring to power the light is covered." Woohoo! I thought we were only covered for stuff inside the house. The $9.99 monthly premium (about $120 per year) will be paid back with this one visit. I don't usually purchase this type of 'insurance' but because our home was a rehab, I thought it would be a good idea.

I'll let you know what they find, if anything. The whole issue might just be a bad gasket and I've bought a new one. I still need to purchase a new bulb. I also know I need to take care of protecing the connection of the ground wire to the pool in the light nook.
 
Electrician was here, checked everything out and all is well. The pool light (still on the deck) lit up nicely when we put in a regular lightbulb and flipped the switch. Appears that when we removed the light assembly three weeks ago, we tested it with a new bulb too soon and everything wasn't dry.

Two new bulbs just arrived from Amazon so along with the new gasket, we'll reassemble and reinstall and see how long it lasts this time! I sure hope the new gasket does the trick. New lights are soooo expensive.

The visit was free due to the Duke wiring insurance.
 
I asked the electrician (certified) if I should replace the junction box and he said no. He did put a new gasket on the faceplate but that was it. I couldn't get him to sell me anything. He just advised to be sure to attach the ground wire to the inside of a new junction box because the exterior will be plastic.

I showed him the picture of the ground wire attached in the niche and he had no issue with the current configuration. The light is dated 2004 so it's been installed that way (or longer with another light) for at least 12 years. Does that make the situation better or worse?I still haven't ruled out doing the potting material. Do I have to do any prep of the surface prior to application of the potting matrial?


So we reassembled the light with the new gasket and the new bulb........and the dry housing and it works! There will be better pictures at night but gotta have a picture.
 
familytr33 said:
There are 2 conduits going up into your j-box (both should be buried at least 18 inches to meet code).

<<EDIT>>

One conduit should be from the light switch at your house. But I don't understand when you say you have power/fuse for the light at the pool pad, but he switch is inside your house. Please can you explain a little more?

<<END EDIT>>

The other conduit should connect to the back of your pool light niche.

The cable to the light is likely a black/white/green cables wrapped inside a black insulated cable.

The conduit back to the power source should contain 3 separate thin cables (black, white, green - if it has been done to code).

hth,

ft.
Click to expand...

The electrician also figured out the light switch wire actually meanders through the house and pops out over by the pump and power supply. While he was there I figured I would ask him what everything was over by the pump. I had looked at the wiring there before and could not figure out the purpose of #1. He opened it and confirmed it was the wire to the light switch.

1. Light switch wire coming out of house.
2. Junction box with conduit from breaker, power out to pool light, on/off switch.
3. Breaker and GFI above.
4. Conduit leaving the j-box and running to the pool light is blocked by the filter.
 
Glad it works!

Making my 3rd try at getting my light operative. Replaced the front gasket seal. Failed. I believe it's leaking into the housing from the cable connection in the back. I've been layering a semi-flexible marine epoxy product in layers over the cord connection. Using the G-Flex epoxy as in this thread: Amerilite Pool Light Leaks. A Fix and what I've learned Had already tried a silicone based seal around the cord base and a plumber's putty fix in the same area. This is my last try before resorting to replacing the whole thing...
 

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