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Thread: New to TFP Method - Need some help

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    New to TFP Method - Need some help

    I am relatively new to caring for a swimming pool, so I apologize in advance for the questions. I read through the tutorials, but I am a bit overwhelmed. I'm confused about the order of everything; adding salt, adjusting pH, alkalinity, CH, CYA, etc. I already started SLAMing, but I know that my TA is a bit low. I also noticed that my Nature2 tutorial has different ranges for some of the chemistry values (see bottom of my post).

    My pool was just opened, and the water looked slightly green. I haven't added salt yet (it's at 2.8 from last year), so I will need to do that before starting the SWG. Is it bad to not add salt until I am done SLAMing? I adjusted the pH to 7.6. The TA was at 50, which I think is slightly low. There was no CYA in the water. I added 5 gallons of bleach, and tested a few hours later. There was no FC, and I tested it again to confirm. I don't know if it burned off that quickly because of no CYA, ammonia, or algae. I thought it would be smart to use Dichlor, since it has CYA. I added 6 pounds yesterday afternoon. I tested again 3 hours later, and it was at 8 PPM. It was down to 3 PPM this morning. My understanding is that I need to SLAM until the overnight loss is less than 1.

    I know that you have to watch using Dichlor, because it can increase the CYA rapidly. If I'm calculating correctly, 6 lbs would only increase my CYA by 10 PPM. I was thinking about getting Pool Conditioner (by Natural Chemistry), since I still need more. Should I just keep SLAMing with Dichlor and add Pool Conditioner later if needed?

    My other concern is the Nature2 reference ranges. It looks like the TFP method recommends lower TA and higher CYA. Why do they suggest such a low CYA value? Do I really need to worry about FC above 3.0 causing corrosion? These are the ranges that they suggest:

    Free Chlorine: 0.5 - 3.0 ppm. Continuous exposure to levels above 3.0 ppm may cause corrosion of pool metals.
    Combined Chlorine (Chloramines): None (Super chlorinate to remove all chloramines.)
    pH: 7.4 - 7.6
    Chlorine Stabilizer (Cyanuric Acid): 10 - 50 ppm (For outdoor pools only.)
    Total Alkalinity: 80 - 120 ppm.
    Calcium Hardness: 175 - 400 ppm.

    I appreciate any suggestions.
    Inground Pool - 35,000 gallons - SWG (Nature2 - FUSIONSOFT1400) - Cartridge Filter

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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    Welcome! TFP is a non-profit here to give you the information necessary to manage your pool inexpensively, accurate testing so you know what your pool needs, adding the necessary chems (most from your grocery store & hardware stores). Most folks who follow this method will never have to "shock" their pool

    You can't mix the advice given here and the advice given elsewhere.

    First, you should have one of the recommended test kits. The TF-100 is the best value, get the XL option if your pool is green or cloudy. The speed stir really helps with speed and accuracy. Without accurate test results, we can't give too much advice on how to adjust your levels. Pool School - Test Kits Compared

    Second, you may have ammonia and I suggest that you switch to plain bleach as it is the best way to get rid of ammonia. If your CYA disappeared over the winter, more than likely it would convert to ammonia. If your FC disappears or drops after 15 minutes of adding bleach, you probably have ammonia. Frequent additions of bleach and testing FC until your FC doesn't drop will get rid of ammonia quickly.

    Your Nature 2 is introducing metals into your pool water. This can lead to staining your pool and can stain hair. I had a non-SWG Nature 2 and I removed the metal balls as it was causing staining: How to Remove Metal Balls from Nature 2 Fusion

    Nature 2 is way too small for your sized pool. SWG are recommended to be 2-3 times the size of your pool. The Nature 2 system just doesn't produce the amount of FC you will need.

    There is a relationship between FC and CYA. The higher the FC, the less available to sanitize your pool, too much and your FC ends up being locked away, too little and your FC disappears to the suns UV rays. Keeping your FC within the parameters of the this chart keeps FC from being corrosive. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

    PH is the biggest concern when dealing with corrosion. Pool School - Recommended Levels

    Please update your signature with your pool type (vinyl, plaster, fiberglass, etc). This will help understanding the appropriate levels for your pool type.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    2017 replaster/retile

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    Nature2 recommendations are not supported by TFP methods. Our CYA and FC recommendations are backed by scientific studies that detail the relationship between FC and CYA for the most effective and economical elimination of algae as well as for prevention of algae and fast kill times of bacteria and viruses. If you're CYA were 0 then an FC of 3 might cause problems with your pool surfaces and swimmers as it is rather harsh when not moderated by the presence of CYA. Because of this, when you have CYA at TFP recommended levels, such as for example 50 ppm, you're perfectly safe and so is your equipment in water that has 10 ppm FC or even slightly more. CYA greatly moderates the strength of chlorine by holding most of it in reserve with active chlorine levels being less than 1 ppm. It's a complex relationship that is summarized with this first graph. Pool Water Chemistry At a CYA of 50 ppm, when your FC is at 10 ppm, your actual free hypochlorite is only about 0.1 ppm.

    Your TA is marginally low, but I wouldn't be concerned about it until you complete your SLAM. See the recommended levels for your SWG pool that you would adjust to after clearing the pool with a SLAM: Pool School - Recommended Levels (60-80 ppm TA)

    It's OK if you don't have enough salt in your pool right now for your SWG. You don't need your SWG to complete the SLAM. Once it is complete then you can add enough salt to keep the SWG happy and operating.

    You can use the dichlor to increase your FC with the knowledge that it will also increase your CYA level. However, dichlor is also acidic. Acidic chemicals will lower your TA whether it's dichlor, trichlor or muriatic acid. You may want to shy away from dichlor with your low TA and stick to adding pure stabilizer (granular or liquid... granular is much cheaper). Use plain, unscented bleach or a liquid pool shock to perform the SLAM.

    Over the long term, the minerals (copper and silver) that the Nature2 system adds to your pool are not beneficial and if used for long periods could cause metals stains on pool surfaces or green staining of blonde hair in swimmers. That's why they are not recommended for use here on TFP.

    Hope that helps a little bit. It is a lot to take in at first, but once you start putting it into practice and ask more questions, it will become clearer and easier.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    Thanks for the reply. I have the Taylor K-2006 pool testing kit. What I'm confused about is when do I start adding CYA? Should I do it while I'm SLAMing? For simplicity, I was going to use the liquid version. It's supposedly pH neutral. How long do I have to get CYA to the correct level? Is it bad if I'm SLAMing while the CYA is too low?

    I can't believe that they installed a SWG that is too small. What should they have used? I looked at the manual, and it says that it's for pools up to 40,000 gallons.
    Inground Pool - 35,000 gallons - SWG (Nature2 - FUSIONSOFT1400) - Cartridge Filter

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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    How much CYA do you have now?
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    You should add the CYA as soon as you start the SLAM. With the granular type, it takes some time to dissolve, so it should be placed in a sock and then placed in the skimmer or hung in front of a return with the pump running until it is dissolved in both cases. Liquid CYA can be added slowly to your skimmer with the pump running. You want to target 30 ppm CYA. Use that to determine your shock FC level for SLAM. If you were to use granular, assume it's at 30 ppm as soon as you add that amount and start dissolving.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    I assume there is about 10 ppm CYA in there now, maybe less. There was none in the water when I first tested, but I added 6 lbs of Dichlor. I should be targeting 30 ppm? I thought for a SWG, I needed 70-80. I just want to make sure that I am understanding correctly. Thanks!
    Inground Pool - 35,000 gallons - SWG (Nature2 - FUSIONSOFT1400) - Cartridge Filter

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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    Great news on having one of the recommended kits!

    It is best to SLAM while your CYA is around 20-30. Add enough liquid stabilizer to get you from your assumed starting amount of 10 and aim for 20 to 30. Once it the stabilizer is fully dissolved, assume that the CYA is present and use that for your SLAM FC level.

    Once the CYA is dissolved make sure you test your PH/TA to make sure it didn't get impacted with the additions of chems. As long as your PH is around 7.2 you can proceed with your SLAM. You can adjust your TA and other chems once the SLAM is complete.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    2017 replaster/retile

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    Re: New to TFP Method - Need some help

    For your SLAM you turn the SWG off and pretend you don't have one. CYA 30 makes the SLAM easiest. After you are done, you would raise it to 70-80 and proceed normally.

    If you have liquid already that works, it doesn't even need time to dissolve obviously, just time to mix around a little.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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