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Thread: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

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    NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Information about pool size in signature.

    FC - Over 5ppm (test doesn't go higher)
    TC - Over 5ppm (test doesn't go higher)
    CC - Can't tell
    pH - 7.0

    TA - 122
    CH - 20
    CYA - 65

    First, let me apologize for my FC, TC, and CC results. I went to Leslie's and bought the kit I thought was recommended. After pulling it out and using it, I quickly realized this doesn't give me higher results on the chlorine than 5ppm. I am so mad. I hope I can go get another option that will help me with this.

    My water is blue, but extremely cloudy. It was left uncovered and not cared for since Feb. 2015 until 10 days ago when I had a pump and filter installed. Salt isn't installed yet because the installer was afraid it would mess up with as much junk as is in the pool. And there is a lot of debris including bullfrogs. It WAS greenish with floating wads of algae, there is a crust of pollen along the water line on the liner that is easily wiped off, and I am unsure if even before Feb. 15 that the pool was care for. Now it is blue and cloudy and small wads of algae have reappeared in the last couple of days that are partially green and partially bleached, which says to me it is regrowing.

    So, the installer shocked the pool with Pool Essentials from Walmart (six pounds) the first day he was here and put in bags of salt (my level is at 1290 right now). They shocked it two days later, then I shocked it twice using the same stuff several days apart. At some point I realized that I was going to have to take more responsibility and it wasn't the installer who was going to get it clear for us. I started using the Clorox Pool app and their testing strips. I got the alkalinity up to its current level using baking soda. A friend of mine told me about this site on Friday, so I started going to PoolSchool at that time. I have been trying to SLAM the pool. I had the water tested yesterday morning and added stabilizer. I got it higher because of the salt even though we don't have a salt system. Several hours later I added nine jugs of 8% bleach according to the SLAM tutorial to get the level to 24. I started digging up stuff off the bottom of the pool and made it get even more cloudy. There is so much debris, but I can't see it because the water is so cloudy.

    Here are my questions and dilemma. The SLAM recommends you clean the pool, but I can't see anything and I fear I am making it worse by using the leaf rake and stirring it up. Should I go ahead and try to vacuum the bottom or should I use some sort of flock or other method for clearing up the water so that I can more easily see what I am trying to remove? Also how can get an accurate and high chlorine level kit? I guess I kind of need some help with the next step. Oh, sorry. One last thing is washing soda, that is mentioned on the pool calculator, Borax? I bought some to raise the pH level, but wanted to be sure that is right.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Welcome to TFP!!

    First, no more solid forms of chlorine or shock. Liquid chlorine or household bleach only. Your CYA is already very high for a SLAM and solid forms of chlorine contain CYA.

    No more baking soda. Your TA is already at the high end and we find most pools actually do better with the TA lower.

    No Flock!

    Use your leaf rake and if you have a method to vacuum ot waste that will work also.

    Tell us what model number test kit you bought and we can advice on individual test that can be added to get what you need.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Thanks so much for your response to my post!

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    First, no more solid forms of chlorine or shock. Liquid chlorine or household bleach only. Your CYA is already very high for a SLAM and solid forms of chlorine contain CYA.
    I switched to bleach once I started SLAMing and haven't looked back since. I was going for the recommendation on this page Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart because I have salt in my pool, but no SWG, so I wasn't sure what to do. But I will definitely stick with bleach from now on.

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    No more baking soda. Your TA is already at the high end and we find most pools actually do better with the TA lower.
    Got it. I was thinking though I needed to bring the pH up just a bit and so I was wondering about the washing soda for that. Is that Borax, like I can buy in the laundry aisle?

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Tell us what model number test kit you bought and we can advice on individual test that can be added to get what you need.
    On the cover it says Total Poolcare DPD Test Kit. There is a number 18-576 near the bottom of the label. The only thing I think I need is a test that shows me all the chlorine levels, but going beyond 5ppm.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    This is the additional test kit you will need: FAS-DPD

    Might want to add this one for testing salt level: Taylor-Salt-Test
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    I bought the FAS-DPD kit, it should be here in a few days. I took my water this morning to Leslie's to get it tested. I think the highest theirs goes on chlorine is 20ppm and she said mine is 20ppm for both FC and TC. She also said the stabilizer was 40. Frankly, I don't believe it. I came home and ran my test again and it is still 65. I have scooped up most of the debris from the bottom of the pool as far as I can tell since I can't see to the bottom of the water with the leaf rake. My filters are full in about an hour because the pool is just so dirty. This is getting tiring. I am frustrated.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Take a breath, it will get there

    You filters filling is a good sign, you're getting the gunk out... I would not trust the pool store either.. once you get your FAS-DPD it will be much easier..
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    I will tell you, it didn't turn green overnight and it will take time to clear. But, we can teach you how to get it sparkling and keep it that was for a lot less money than the pool store.

    Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. But, what can you do?? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it.

    Keep doing what you are doing, you are moving in the right direction.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Thanks y'all. I was just getting really frustrated and low because I kept digging out gunk and making it worse and the filters were filling up in an hour and cleaning them is a total pain in the neck. I agree about the pool people. The first store the woman was like "a cartridge with a vinyl pool, are you sure?!" I happened to have it in my trunk so I think I am certain I have a cartridge filter. The next store the associate bragged she had been doing it for eight years, but came up with stabilizer at 40. There is no way it is that low unless I am blind while doing the testing.

    I really do appreciate all y'all are doing to help me. I am waiting on my FAS-DPD kit. Two questions still unanswered, though. My pH is 7.0, should I try bringing it up right now or leave it? I bought Borax, is that was is referred when it says "washing soda" on the Pool Calc?
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    I really laugh when pool store employees brag about the number of years they have been doing it. Doing something wrong for 8 years doesn't make you better at it.....

    Yup, Borax will bring up pH and not effect TA that much (yours is on the high side, but don't worry for now). If even in doubt what you should be using check out - Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    I believe that Borax and washing soda are two different things...They can be used for similar adjustments but the effects are different.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Is there any use in trying flock? I simply cannot keep cleaning my filters every 30 minutes. The pool is so cloudy that within 30 minutes, the pressure has risen 10 psi. I have two filters I am rotating but this is getting ridiculous. You can't see down to the bottom of the pool, or even between the second and third step. Water is light greenish gray.
    It was bluish green before I started scooping stuff from the bottom again.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Yup, Borax will bring up pH and not effect TA that much (yours is on the high side, but don't worry for now). If even in doubt what you should be using check out - Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    Thanks for the link. I read all about the chemicals and levels, but somehow missed this.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Really, floc is just going to do the same thing. It just makes the suspended stuff drop, You'll still be vacuuming it into the filter.

    The upside, in normal use, of a cartridge filter is that they do a great job. The downside, during a SLaM, is they do a great job.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by bownut View Post
    Is there any use in trying flock? I simply cannot keep cleaning my filters every 30 minutes. The pool is so cloudy that within 30 minutes, the pressure has risen 10 psi. I have two filters I am rotating but this is getting ridiculous. You can't see down to the bottom of the pool, or even between the second and third step. Water is light greenish gray.
    It was bluish green before I started scooping stuff from the bottom again.
    - - - Updated - - -



    Thanks for the link. I read all about the chemicals and levels, but somehow missed this.
    Ok, I now see what you are dealing with and I would be very frustrated also.. Your filter is entirely to small for your pool, to give you some perspective, I have a 100 sq ft cartridge filter on my 700 gallon hot tub, you have a 90 sq ft cartridge on your 36,000 gal pool... That filter is going to run your ragid.... I am surprised you are getting 30 minutes out of it...

    On my 15,000 gal pool I have a 320 sq ft cartridge, that would be the minimum I would recommend for your size pool and the maximum is the 520 sq ft...

    Here is the 320 Amazon.com : Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 320 Square Foot In Ground Cartridge Pool Filter - 160340 : Swimming Pool Cartridge Filters : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Here is the 420 Amazon.com : Pentair 160301 Clean Garden

    Here is the 520 Amazon.com : Pentair 160332 Clean Garden

    You could go to a big sand filter also

    Amazon.com : Pentair Triton II Side Mount Filter TR100 Fiberglass Sand Filter without Valve : Swimming Pool Cartridge Filters : Patio, Lawn Garden
    Forgot to mention, if you went with the sand filter you would also need this
    Amazon.com : Pentair 261050 2-Inch HiFlow Valve with Plumbing Replacement Pool/Spa D.E. and Sand Filter : Swimming Pool Filter Valves : Patio, Lawn Garden


    I know this is probably the last thing you want to hear but its what is going to help the most, can you do it the way you are going, yes, it will just be much more work and take longer...
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    That big Triton is a great filter. Look at my sig line...
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Look at my sig. I have a 320 sq. ft. on my 5000 gallon pool. Don't have to clean it but once a year.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Yes, this is the last thing I want to hear right now. I did look up the specs on the Hayward filter and it says max pool size is 43,500 ga. But I get that having more area on the filter would make this process go a lot faster. I don't even know what to say to the installer.

    Back to flock... I can vacuum to waste. The installer added a valve right before the filter that lets me blow it out of the system--and into my yard--so that it doesn't go into the filter or back into the pool. I accidentally shipped the test kit to my old address so now I won't be able to get it for up to 10 days, according to the glorious post office even though I had a forwarding order on file. Should I go ahead and try the flock route to spare my sanity?

    The FC got down to 10--the most I can currently check for--so I shocked it with liquid bleach again yesterday.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    Ok, I got my test kit in. Here are my results.

    FC: 13 ppm
    CC: .5 ppm
    pH: 7.0
    TA: 120
    CYA: 60

    So, I just had the FC up to 24 two days ago because I added exactly what I needed to get it to that level and now it has dropped significantly. It is not clear. I am unsure the two filters I am swapping out are going to make it for many more cleanings.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    So there's still something in the water that the chlorine is working on. Time to go back to the Test, Calculate, Dose, Wait, Repeat routine. Wait time should be around 2 -3 hours at most. At a bare minimum you need to be testing and adjusting 4 times a day. More if at all possible.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    OK, I will, especially now that I have the right kit and can do it. I added enough bleach to get it to 24 and now three hours later it is down to 21.5 ppm. So, I am heading out with another jug. LOL.
    CITY: Fayetteville, NC POOL: 20x40, approx. 33000 ga, IG, Vinyl, Hayward SwimClear C3030, Hayward Max-Flo 2302VSP, Hayward T-Cell-15, Hayward ProLogic Plus 4 controller (not incredibly useful because the pump won't work with it and we don't have anything else for it to control), well water

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    Re: NEWBIE bought pool abadoned early 2015 and full of debris, HELP

    YAY, you got your kit... nice

    Ok, just check your FC and CC until your done with the SLAM, once done you can let your FC drop on its own and when FC is below 10 check everything again..

    Great job, keep it up
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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