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Thread: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

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    Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    So with all the rain we have had, I checked my CYA and its down to 35! When I started it was un-measurable with a 4:1 dilution of distilled water and the pool water it was still over 100. I drained probably 3/4 of the pool in Sept and refill, now with all the rain and refills my CYA is where we want it to be. Just put the heater on probably going in tomorrow

    Just wanted some recommendations for levels

    Measured

    FC- 1.5 (bringing up to 6 based on CYA)
    CC- 0
    CYA- 35(yea!)
    PH 7.6
    TA- 60(needs to come up correct but to what? 90?)
    CH- 120(should this come up?)

    Again thanks to everyone here pool is spotless I have shown a few others this and they are using the BBB method as well.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    Yay, congrats!
    I would leave your TA alone. Then keep track of how often you need to adjust pH. If it stays pretty consistent, you don't have to mess with TA at all.
    Do you have the manual for the heater? Some have recommended CH levels. Otherwise, you can leave that alone too.

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    Your TA can stay at 60. Wait a few weeks so see how your PH fluctuates. Any changes should be made slowly. I would probably increase to 70 and stay there for a while to see how your PH reacts to the TA. Your pool has to find a comfort level. I have lowered my TA from 120 down to 70 because of rising PH (Too much aeration).

    It is recommended highly to increase your CYA to around 50. Your CH could stay the same because you have a liner pool. I keep mine around 200. CH is more important with plaster/concrete pools. Your target is 4.5 FC with a CYA of 35.


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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    PH was 7.8 and TA 70 CYA 45 a few weeks back but we had like 8 inches of rain. So I should bring CYA up to 50 but that also means a higher FC level too?
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    I think I'd leave it at 40 myself. Just for ease. And then if you see you're having problems keeping chlorine in the water, go ahead and raise it a skosh then.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    I would tend to suggest around 40 for a target CYA in your region also, we generally only suggest levels of 50 ppm CYA for sunbelt states which is not exactly NC
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    I agree! If you find that your daily FC demand is higher than 2.5ish, you can always up your CYA. Watch and wait.

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    is there a chart that shows chlorine loss VS CYA? I assume temp would play a role. So if my loss is less than 2.5PPM per day my CYA is good. Higher then up the CYA to 50. Same thing with TA keep where it is at 60 and see if PH is table long term.

    This is good stuff! I guess each pool will have a equilibrium I am starting to understand the interaction and that's why testing is important.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    I guess each pool will have a equilibrium I am starting to understand the interaction and that's why testing is important.
    Yes, this is why testing is so important. You begin to understand your pool, etc. Chlorine loss is really dependent on how much CC you have in the pool, with the addition of the heat and usage. The more usage, the more chlorine consumption as well. I actually created my own spreadsheet for the last few years in where each week, I used the temperature from http://www.weather.com and then added chlorine daily, etc. At the end of the week, I averaged out the daily chlorine consumption. The range was anywhere from 1.5 ppm - 2.5 ppm daily loss with pool usage. My pool did not get a lot of use. If the pool is used almost daily with a lot of children, you will go through more. This is why testing is so important. Usually there are no surprises.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    So looks like i am using 2-2.5ppm per day. I have the heater on so temps are 85ish (wifey likes it warm). Pool gets sun most of the day. PH still 7.6, TA 60, CYA 35 FC 0.0 holding steady. Pool is sparkingly clear!

    i guess if i go over 2.5ppm use i need to look at adding CYA up to 45-50 (that test is very subjective not like counting drops in the others) I did get more powder and reagent for the FAS-DPD.

    Things look so much better than last year with CYA 200+ and having to keep chlorine at 12. My CYA was probably 200-300 for years and i always kept the chlorine at 2-3PPM no wonder i always had algae issues.

    i relied on the pool store to get my water right, the one thing they never tell you about is CYA. Finally last year they mentioned they couldn't measure it and recommended draining 1/2 the pool to reduce i was like what is this CYA stuff? Thats when i found this site and figured out that CYA from pucks is so bad and that was my problem. Years and years of all the chemicals they sold to fix algae issues when all it as keeping the correct FC level for a given CYA level. of course when your CYA is off the charts thats impossible to do but once folks find this place and learn what high CYA is and how it requires more FC to sanitize everything makes sense.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    Quote Originally Posted by miwitte View Post
    So looks like i am using 2-2.5ppm per day. I have the heater on so temps are 85ish (wifey likes it warm). Pool gets sun most of the day. PH still 7.6, TA 60, CYA 35 FC 0.0 holding steady. Pool is sparkingly clear!

    i guess if i go over 2.5ppm use i need to look at adding CYA up to 45-50 (that test is very subjective not like counting drops in the others) I did get more powder and reagent for the FAS-DPD.

    Things look so much better than last year with CYA 200+ and having to keep chlorine at 12. My CYA was probably 200-300 for years and i always kept the chlorine at 2-3PPM no wonder i always had algae issues.

    i relied on the pool store to get my water right, the one thing they never tell you about is CYA. Finally last year they mentioned they couldn't measure it and recommended draining 1/2 the pool to reduce i was like what is this CYA stuff? Thats when i found this site and figured out that CYA from pucks is so bad and that was my problem. Years and years of all the chemicals they sold to fix algae issues when all it as keeping the correct FC level for a given CYA level. of course when your CYA is off the charts thats impossible to do but once folks find this place and learn what high CYA is and how it requires more FC to sanitize everything makes sense.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    so may have spoken too soon. I made those statements based on measuring after a couple days.(5PPM over 2 days) I just did another measurement based on smaller windows. So on Sat around 2PM I measured 1.5 ppm, added a jug of chlorine which should have gotten me to 6(in range of FC recommendations for CYA of 35). I measured at 5PM and it was 6 PPM right where pool math said it should be. I measured again last night at 5Pm or 24 hours and it had dropped to 1.5 PPM for a loss of 4.5 PPM in 24 hours. Measure again this morning at 6am and it was at 1.0 PPM. Why the exponential decay it seems it lost more over time when the FC was higher. In all my testing there is no CC at all so nothing is going on from a algae standpoint.

    2 things come to mind. I haven't cleaned filter in a week so there is probably a ton of pollen and other stuff can that we eating up my FC? I am going to clean filter this AM and repeat test.

    second if I am still losing 4.5 per day then looks like CYA need to be raised to 50 and retest. I struggled so hard to get rid of CYA its going to kill me to add. It was pretty expensive to replace all that water to remove CYA...

    Still a jug of chloring in 2 days isn't terrible but when it really gets hot it may be a lot more. I guess just keep monitoring things? I really think CYA addition should be a last resort if I lose all my FC in 1 day.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    FC loss to UV is more of a % rather than a specific number-

    Let's say 50% just for easy math....

    If your pool starts at 10 in the morning then it will be 5 in the evening, start at 8 and end up at 4 in the evening. So yes, the higher the FC starts the more you loose. This is why we advise not to go too much above the target on the FC/CYA chart. FC/CYA Chart

    So, to your pool. CYA = 40 (there is no 35 for calculations) your absolute minimum FC should be 3, never go below this number. Your target is 5, so that with UV loss during the day you stay above 3. Now, if you find you loose more than the 2ppm you need to look at two areas, Organics or UV.

    To eliminate something unknown growing in the pool we conduct an OCLT. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

    Passing OCLT proves you are getting lots of unfiltered sun on your pool, adjust CYA up, try 50 next. Remember, with 50 CYA your minimum/target FC moves up just a little.

    As to your raw usage, I'm about 90 minutes south of you with an uncovered pool, direct sun all day. I ended up using about half a bottle (121 oz 8.25%) each day last year. Now, that was with CYA around 60 (my pool started at 250), the rains took mine below 30 and I'm working it up now, shooting for 50.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    To control pollen, I have socks in the skimmer baskets (which are emptied each day). To make life easier, I have 3 sets of skimmer baskets. This should control the amount of chlorine consumption. If there is a heavy amount of pollen through the night, then you may well loose more than 1 ppm. Test late at night (when dark) and first thing in the morning before sun is out. At least this will minimize the consumption as most of your pollen is in the basket and removed daily, never getting a chance to get to the filter.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    so I lost .5 PPM overnight from 6Pm to 6Am so my OCLT is ok. I will clean out the filter and add to bring it to 5 as suggested and see where I am. So when folks say 2PPM max loss, is that a 24 hour loss or a daylight hour loss due to UV(which CYA controls)?
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    Quote Originally Posted by miwitte View Post
    so I lost .5 PPM overnight from 6Pm to 6Am so my OCLT is ok. I will clean out the filter and add to bring it to 5 as suggested and see where I am. So when folks say 2PPM max loss, is that a 24 hour loss or a daylight hour loss due to UV(which CYA controls)?
    Most are looking at a daily (24 hour) loss as they manually chlorinate.

    As I chlorinate with a Stenner pump I can see mine going up as the summer arrives as I have to dial up the chlorine additions. As fall arrives it slowly moves down again until during the winter I turn the pump off and manually add if need be. My pool is open 12 months, but it needs little work after the water drops to 60 or so.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    i cleaned out filter it was pretty bad actually. added chlorine earlier 1 PM(about 1.5 hours after bleach added) measurement is 6PPM.

    i just got a stenner 45 off ebay and i plan on using it to chlorinate. that's why i am trying to get a sense for what it uses. Originally my goal was to use a ORP probe and controller, i got one of those off ebay, howeve in testing i am not seeing much difference in MV from the probe from 1PPM to 6 PPM. I think its due to all the other chemical and factors. So its probably back on ebay its sounds like its more for a fish tank type setup anyway.

    My plan was to inject into the old chlorinator since that has a nice siphon where it will pull the pool water and bleach mixture in. Someone mentioned that was unsafe but i don't see why as i will never again use pucks and i am the only one maintaining it.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    Your PPM loss daily is based on many factors. If you have 10 people, which includes 4-6 children with a lot of sun tan lotion for about 4 hours, you will loose more. With this scenario, I have lost up to 4.5 within a 24 hour period. I always add one extra gallon in the morning when company is company over and then test early the next day to determine what my next step is. Frequent testing is what makes you understand your pool. I am glad everything is working out for you.
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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    The goal is to get the Stenner going and inject at various times during the day to maintain the proper amount. How much and how often will take some practice to get the timer right. The original plan was to use the ORP controller to help with that but its way too sensitive.

    Good news is my CYA is under control and I mostly understand the relationship between things and where they should be. This is the first summer for BBB, i converted in sept last year after "discovering" what CYA really is and what happens when it is out of control like mine.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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    Re: Update after going to BBB method and got my CYA under control

    So the Stenner I got off eBay was very rough I had taken it all apart to clean up but I think its shot. For the folks using Stenners or something like that where is you injection point? Gotta find something else may break down for a kit.

    So numbers still holding PH 7.6 TA 60. losing about 2-3 a day so adding approx. 3/3 of a jug a day to maintain no less than 3 as per recommendations. Now if will just warm up what happened to May? Its been in the 50's here all week I know some places in the far northeast got some snow.
    Location Charlotte NC. Pool is a IG vinyl liner, 18X36 lagoon approx. 20,000 gallons odd shaped pool with different depths. 2 skimmers, 3 returns. Hayward 1HP pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward chlorine feeder, Laars 250,000 BTU heater. Stenner pump with #2 tube for chlorine injection. Leslie branded Taylor test kit

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