New pool owner, first post, just getting started

[pooldv]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

Right. It adds chlorine and calcium. Don't get your CH too high, above 350 or so, to avoid scale and/or additional water chemistry management.

 

[needsajet]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

With FC at 0, and no mention of algae yet, would it be a good idea for OP to put some bleach in there right away to keep it clear while everything gets worked out? I'd put 3 gallons in right away if it was me.

 

[joninnj]

Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

Pool just opened yesterday, and I am a bit overwhelmed. Will continue discussion of water testing on a previous thread, but I have specific questions on cleaning and filter pressure.

1. Cleaning: Pool was under a mesh cover all winter. When it came off, water was clear, some algae along edge of pool and on top step with a "decent" amount of debris and muck on the bottom. Pool guy got the Polaris 360 going, threw in a bunch of shock, ran pump continuously. Today, there are a few streaks where the Polaris seemed to do its job, but less than I would have thought. Plus it is mostly floating in the middle of the pool. I finally figured out how to hook up the manual vacuum but wasn't sure how much of the perceived progress was vacuuming or just stirring up the much at the bottom. I also brushed the algae off the edges (pool guy had brushed off the step). Questions:
a) How do I get the Polaris to stay on the bottom? Wheels running, water jet off the back seems to be pointing at the 10-11:00 position (what pool guy said it should be), pulled float to 1.5 inches away from body, water jets seem to be shooting water into bag as appropriate. If working, can this thing really clean a newly-opened pool?
b) Am I doing manual vacuum right? Pool has 2 skimmers and drain. From Googling, I filled the hose with water from a return, kept it under water to the skimmer, and put it into a hose-shaped opening with the basket removed. I did lift the vacuum near the surface and did feel suction of sorts. I put a tennis ball in the other skimmer to increase suction on the vacuum. My doubts are about its effectiveness and whether it's okay to vacuum debris right into the filter (?) without a basket or anything in between.
c) Any tips on getting this pool cleaned in general post-open? I am a bit overwhelmed. The manual vacuum seems tedious and only marginally effective, and the Polaris, after that good start, isn't working great. Am I missing something?

2. DE filter pressure. Pool guy said baseline is 16-18 after opening it yesterday. This morning, pressure was 25, so I backwashed it. Turned pump off, backwash for about 30-40 seconds, pump off rinse for 10-20 seconds; repeat 2 times. Put in 5 pounds of DE into skimmer. Pressure back up to 16. Yay! However, later, I noticed pressure down to 10. Hmmm. Turned pump off then on, pressure goes back to 15. But then it drifts down to 10-12. What's wrong? Could this have anything to do with vacuuming debris right into the filter?

 

[Texas Splash]

Re: Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

From everything you are describing, you still have algae and need to "SLAM" your pool (see link in my sig below). A SLAM "maintains" the higher FC required to kill all the algae. Post a full set of results from your TF-100 and we can help get you going and give you advice on your filter.

 

[joninnj]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

OK. Pump running 24 hours after pool guy opened it. He threw in some shock (calcium hypochlorite), Leslie's Alkalinity Up, and Leslie's Soda Ash that I had in the garage from the previous owner. He actually didn't give me his readings, but I told him what I had measured, and he said his readings were consistent. Here are the two sets of tests I have.

Pre-opening:
pH 6.8
FC 0
CC 0.5
TC 0.5
CH 225
TA 90
CYA 120

Post opening and chemicals:
pH 7.2
FC 3
CC 1
TC 4
CH 200
TA 190
CYA 160 (still trying to figure out this test, did this with a 50% dilution)

My immediate question:
Does pH still need to go up?
Any harm in having TA so high?
Any way I get get away without a drain and fill for the CYA? I did a small drain to get the water level down to halfway on the skimmers, and it flooded my side yard where the water discharges. I can imagine the small lake that will be there with a larger drain, but if it needs to be done... How much of a drain would be needed? Guessing the pool is around 30,000+ gallons.

 

[joninnj]

Re: Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

Pre-opening:
pH 6.8
FC 0
CC 0.5
TC 0.5
CH 225
TA 90
CYA 120

Post opening and chemicals [pool guy threw in some some shock (calcium hypochlorite), Leslie's Alkalinity Up, and Leslie's Soda Ash that I had in the garage from the previous owner]:
pH 7.2
FC 3
CC 1
TC 4
CH 200
TA 190
CYA 160 (still trying to figure out this test, did this with a 50% dilution)

 

[Richard320]

Re: Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

Pressure rising points to a dirty filter. The filter is doing what it's designed to do.

Pressure dropping points to low water level, clogged skimmer basket, clogged pump strainer basket, or debris in the impeller. Those are in order of difficulty to remedy. If you've been backwashing a lot and the water dropped a couple inches, you could easily be creating a vortex and sucking air. And if you've been vacuuming up stuff you could have filled the baskets. If you had a lot of twigs and especially pine needles, then a clogged impeller is also a possibility.

 

[Texas Splash]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

I was going to ask the condition of your water, but seeing your CYA now it doesn't matter.

Does pH still need to go up?

Depends on if you need to SLAM or not. But right now ... no (see below)

Any harm in having TA so high?

YES. Exactly why we don't let pool guys just dump stuff in the pool. Lowering TA is a pain in the neck and requires lots of acid over time. It was perfect before.

Any way I get away without a drain and fill for the CYA?

No. You MUST do a water exchange first. Your CYA needs to be more around the 50 or less mark before you do anything else. Sorry. Do the drain, post new numbers, and we'll go from there.

 

[joninnj]

Re: Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

Pressure rising points to a dirty filter. The filter is doing what it's designed to do.

Pressure dropping points to low water level, clogged skimmer basket, clogged pump strainer basket, or debris in the impeller. Those are in order of difficulty to remedy. If you've been backwashing a lot and the water dropped a couple inches, you could easily be creating a vortex and sucking air. And if you've been vacuuming up stuff you could have filled the baskets. If you had a lot of twigs and especially pine needles, then a clogged impeller is also a possibility.

Not only did I backwash, but I did drop the water a bit because it was too high. It is now midway on the skimmers. Is that right? And if the vortex thing is going on, how do I fix it?

Also, when I was vacuuming, I removed the basket and put the vacuum hose right into this hole (that seemed to fit the hose) at the bottom of the skimmer. Was that a mistake, leading to debris getting to the filter?

Finally, what is a pump strainer basket? Pool guy showed me strainer baskets that need to be filled. Seemed to imply that I didn't ever need to open up filter or anything around the pump?

 

[joninnj]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

How much of the pool do I need to drain?

As for TA, he came up with a lower reading (50's) than my initial reading of 90's. Given that he's a pool guy that has been doing these tests forever, and I have run 4 sets of tests in my life, I was incline to trust his readings, but now I am not so sure...

 

[AimeeH]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

Have you used Pool Math yet? There is a link at the stop of the page for it. You would plug in your numbers and your goals and it will calculate how much you'd have to drain. You would be wise to do so in steps if it is a lot.

 

[Texas Splash]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

If your CYA is at 160, you can expect a 50% water exchange would lower it to about 80. Still quite high for a non-SWG pool. But you want to be cautious about how much water you drain at once for the safety of your pool structure/liner. So you may just want to do a 50% exchange, test CYA, and do another partial if needed. As for the pool guy and their experience ... we see that here ALL the time.

 

[Richard320]

Re: Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

Not only did I backwash, but I did drop the water a bit because it was too high. It is now midway on the skimmers. Is that right? And if the vortex thing is going on, how do I fix it?

Also, when I was vacuuming, I removed the basket and put the vacuum hose right into this hole (that seemed to fit the hose) at the bottom of the skimmer. Was that a mistake, leading to debris getting to the filter?

Finally, what is a pump strainer basket? Pool guy showed me strainer baskets that need to be filled. Seemed to imply that I didn't ever need to open up filter or anything around the pump?

The vortex, if you have one, will disappear when you add more water. Halfway up the skimmer opening is generally right. You'll know for sure if you see a vortex or not. The pump strainer is beneath the clear lid right on the pump where the plumbing comes in horizontally. Between that basket and the electric motor is the impeller. Pine needles can slip through the strainer basket and get caught in the impeller. Think of an electric fan. Now string masking tape from blade top blade. How much air do you think you'll get now? Same principle.

 

[jblizzle]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

I merged your 2 threads that are discussing the same things. Please keep all related questions/discussion together as it is easier to help you without repeating ourselves. Thanks, jblizzle

 

[joninnj]

Re: Pool just opened (first time pool owner!): questions on cleaning and pressure

The vortex, if you have one, will disappear when you add more water. Halfway up the skimmer opening is generally right. You'll know for sure if you see a vortex or not. The pump strainer is beneath the clear lid right on the pump where the plumbing comes in horizontally. Between that basket and the electric motor is the impeller. Pine needles can slip through the strainer basket and get caught in the impeller. Think of an electric fan. Now string masking tape from blade top blade. How much air do you think you'll get now? Same principle.

It was the pump strainer. Full of needles, debris. Cleaned that our, and pressure back to baseline of 16. Thanks! Pool guy never mentioned it to me (though he did have a lot to show me, first time and all).

 

[joninnj]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

I am now resigned to drain and fill. Will do it tomorrow. However, still a bit despondent about cleaning the pool (not the water). Now that the pump strainer has been cleared, and water pressure on returns and Polaris are notably higher, the Polaris seems more content to hang out on the bottom. Will this thing really clean the pool? Any tricks to make manual vacuuming more effective?

 

[Texas Splash]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

I manually vacuum. Standard set-up: Turn pump on high, fill hose with water, attach vacuum head, insert end of hose into skimmer hose... then GO! The suction is so strong it tries to stick to the floor in some places. Once you do the water exchange, overall water chemistry (FC/CYA balance) will be much easier.

 

[joninnj]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

I manually vacuum. Standard set-up: Turn pump on high, fill hose with water, attach vacuum head, insert end of hose into skimmer hose... then GO! The suction is so strong it tries to stick to the floor in some places. Once you do the water exchange, overall water chemistry (FC/CYA balance) will be much easier.

Do you shut off the other skimmers and drains to increase suction? Are some manual vacuums better than others? (The one that came with the pool is a triangular-shaped one.)

 

[joninnj]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

Overview

 

[AimeeH]

Re: New pool owner,, first post, just getting started

I also manually vacuum and do not have an automated one. I've never directly connected the hose to the skimmer suction however. I fill my hose with water as you stated, attach skimmer plate and put over skimmer with skimmer basket in.

And I do shut the valve to the main drain to increase skimmer suction.