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Thread: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    I was curious if it is common for a PB to decline using equipment, even if new in the box, that the customer provides? I know its one thing for someone to quote an install when they already own something thats usable, but is it unreasonable for someone to want to shop around to not spend a $200-300 premium per piece of equipment compared to online (or even a local pool store)?
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Do you bring your own oil to Jiffy Lube?

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Them marking up the price of materials is part of there profit margin, as it is with most businesses.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    When i was shopping for a PB some said they will not install it because they provide extended warranty so they want to use their equipment with their serial numbers and manufacturer date.
    Our Build 2016 14.5' x 26' IG Pebble, 14.5K Gal. 3.5' - 6.5' deep, 5 returns, 2 Skimmers, Hayward VS pump, Hayward 525 Cartridge Filter, Hayward E-Command 4, Heliocol Solar, Hayward LED Light, Paramount Ultraviolet, Polaris 280, AquaRite Pro, T-CELL-15, Sense and Dispense (HL-CHEM), Ph Dispense System (AQL-CHEM3) , Taylor K-2006 with SpeedStir

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Usually the PB takes a markup on the equipment, then includes a mark up on the installation price. If you supply it, he loses the product mark up.

    If you supply it, he gets in the middle between you and the pool store if it fails or under performs.

    And it depends on what it is. You can always ask for an installation only bid, separate from the pool bid rather than a change order.

    It's about profit, liability, and product performance.
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    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    My PB did it without question. Oddly enough though, he HATES DE filters, and just couldn't understand why I would buy a DE filter over sand. We must have had 5 conversions about that. But, he installed it, the side valve, and the pump I bought online without issue - and was pretty forthright about the credits I received for providing my own equipment.
    16x36 inground pool - 8.5 deep, 3.5' shallow vinyl - Pentair VS 011018 Pump, Hayward 72 SQ FT Pro-Grid Vertical Grid In Ground Pool DE Filter, Easytouch 520705 (with IC40 SWG), Pentair Mastertemp 300 (460734)

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    I think it also runs into an issue of who is responsible of something goes wrong. If they put a pump in and it's not working right (or causes damage to something else), they are responsible 100%. If you provided the pump, it may not be clear who or what caused a failure.
    20000 gallon vinyl liner in ground pool
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckiechan View Post
    Usually the PB takes a markup on the equipment, then includes a mark up on the installation price. If you supply it, he loses the product mark up.

    If you supply it, he gets in the middle between you and the pool store if it fails or under performs.

    And it depends on what it is. You can always ask for an installation only bid, separate from the pool bid rather than a change order.

    It's about profit, liability, and product performance.
    I agree, it's the law of unintended consequences that could be the gotcha here. I'm sure some will do it but it doesn't surprise me at all if they decline to. It's really a best practice for them not to as a contractor, unless it's installation only as mentioned.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    OK, I guess I'd rather see the price of the equipment quoted at market rate plus a SMALL % over and have the "profit" baked in on the labor side. I guess the end result of a quote might end up being the same, but it just seems odd to me to charge next to nothing for time/labor but then charge 150% of the market rate for the equipment. That seems to lend itself to wanting to price out equipment elsewhere/online.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Some pool builders at least around here offer pool shell only installs leaving the owner responsible for the rest, so there is variation out there on this sort of thing.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Quote Originally Posted by MitchRyan912 View Post
    OK, I guess I'd rather see the price of the equipment quoted at market rate plus a SMALL % over and have the "profit" baked in on the labor side. I guess the end result of a quote might end up being the same, but it just seems odd to me to charge next to nothing for time/labor but then charge 150% of the market rate for the equipment. That seems to lend itself to wanting to price out equipment elsewhere/online.
    Can i ask what do you care how much the equipment cost? Why don't you just care about the overall cost of building your pool? am i missing something?
    Our Build 2016 14.5' x 26' IG Pebble, 14.5K Gal. 3.5' - 6.5' deep, 5 returns, 2 Skimmers, Hayward VS pump, Hayward 525 Cartridge Filter, Hayward E-Command 4, Heliocol Solar, Hayward LED Light, Paramount Ultraviolet, Polaris 280, AquaRite Pro, T-CELL-15, Sense and Dispense (HL-CHEM), Ph Dispense System (AQL-CHEM3) , Taylor K-2006 with SpeedStir

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    I also ask this because everyone we've talked to wants to sell us items that don't seem to match the best practices I've read about from ya'll on here.

    One wants to sell us a single speed 1.5 HP Max E Pro and run it 24/7, and says "we install a ton of these and they work great." He also says 1.5" pipes are fine, and we should replace our TR-60 with a new one, simply because it is 20+ years old now.

    Another says theres no point to going with a TR-100 or 140 for such a small pool, and that you can't suck 100 GPM through a skimmer. They also want to sell us a 3HP Intelliflow VS, which seems like overkill.

    A third builder says a new TR-60 or TA-60 is fine, and that theres no need to upgrade to 2" pipe, even while we are replacing all the leaky 1.5" pipes we have now.

    I'm just a bit frustrated that I don't have one of ya'll up here in Wisconsin...
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    I'm in Chicago, so I fell your pain with respect to limited contractor options. Living this far North expect to be taken to the cleaners for pretty much any pool-related service or project. The pain is diminished once you're floating weightlessly (and cashlessly) in the mid-July sun.
    Geebot
    Chicago, IL
    30K gal, InGround Plaster Finish, 3.5'-9.5', Maytronics S300 Cleaner

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    They do what they know which is what they were taught many years ago. It has worked for them this long. Most PB are NOT used to informed PO. They are used to being the "pro" and knowing what and how to do things. When you start asking questions they will fall back on THEIR best practices that has served them this long.

    We know what we know from doing science based testing and daily use in THOUSANDS of pools BUT it is not the norm. It is informed and relying on ourselves where the other way is relying on "pros" that only know what they have been told.

    You know what you want. Tell then "This is what I want for my pool. Please bid using this." Say it with a smile. If they question you or say "but that is not how we do it" tell them that is how you want it done. Again with a smile. Rinse and repeat (with a smile even if you are on the phone) as needed.

    Good luck and SMILE!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    The thing you need to know about pool builders is it seems most of them know little or nothing about what it is like to live with a pool long term, once the initial start up is complete they never see the pool again. Therefore they may honestly think, this or that works fine, but never see things like the electric bill for running that single speed pump, or more importantly the electric bill after switching to a variable speed or 2 speed pump. My pet peeve is when they layout an equipment pad they almost never leave space on the pad or in the plumbing to accommodate equipment upgrades and replacement, so people end up tearing out the whole equipment pad just to replace a single piece of equipment.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    MitchRyan912's Avatar
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    Re: Do most PB's refuse to install user provided equipment?

    Lock the thread. This is definitely where I am at right now, and I'm pretty frustrated being told the opposite of what I understand to be true based on what Ive learned from being a member of this site. If not for the issue of warranties (important to my wife), I'd be ordering up equipment and getting ready to do this all myself right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    They do what they know which is what they were taught many years ago. It has worked for them this long. Most PB are NOT used to informed PO. They are used to being the "pro" and knowing what and how to do things. When you start asking questions they will fall back on THEIR best practices that has served them this long.

    We know what we know from doing science based testing and daily use in THOUSANDS of pools BUT it is not the norm. It is informed and relying on ourselves where the other way is relying on "pros" that only know what they have been told.

    You know what you want. Tell then "This is what I want for my pool. Please bid using this." Say it with a smile. If they question you or say "but that is not how we do it" tell them that is how you want it done. Again with a smile. Rinse and repeat (with a smile even if you are on the phone) as needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    The thing you need to know about pool builders is it seems most of them know little or nothing about what it is like to live with a pool long term, once the initial start up is complete they never see the pool again. Therefore they may honestly think, this or that works fine, but never see things like the electric bill for running that single speed pump, or more importantly the electric bill after switching to a variable speed or 2 speed pump. My pet peeve is when they layout an equipment pad they almost never leave space on the pad or in the plumbing to accommodate equipment upgrades and replacement, so people end up tearing out the whole equipment pad just to replace a single piece of equipment.
    2016 total pool rebuild thread: here. Pool: 26,000 gal IG vinyl liner (20'x40') in Madison, WI. Gear: ​Superflo VS, Triton TR-60 filter, 2" hi-flow MPV, & Raypak 266A heater. Testing: Taylor K-2006C. Manual chems: 12.5% NaClO liquid, granular CYA, baking soda, 31.25% muriatic acid.

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