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Thread: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

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    Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Testing for TA with the TF100 kit, when adding the reagent waiting for the water to turn from green to red, how far do you go? The water obviously turns red but continues to get even more red after a few more drops. Here is a real example I have currently. At 14 drops, the water turns red, but with drop 15, 16 and 17 it still changes color to a deeper red with each added drop, and at drop 18 it remains the same as where 17 left it. The way I understand it, this means a TA of 170, correct? I am under the impression you keep adding until the water stops changing, and not count the drop where it stops.... in my case the 17th drop equaling 170. Can someone please clarify for me? I am using acid to bring my TA down, started at ~290ish, so it is coming my way. Thanks
    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Always add drops until the last drop causes no further color change and do not count the last drop.

    Same goes for all of the tests.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Good job on lowering the alkalinity using acid! Your numbers are sounding good. Yes, you are correct, when there is no more color change and you add that last drop, and then subtract that drop (number 18 for you)...that is your number. Good job!

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    You've got it figured correctly

    Pool chemistry is really not that difficult, is it? A couple more weeks and it'll all be a yawner.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Thx all, I thought that's how it works but I wanted to confirm. Actually today was the first day I got in my pool and swam, it was awesome. My first-ever pool, and all the work I've done and the weather finally cooperated, I was finally able to get in and swim. 80 degrees outside and 70 degree surface water temps!


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    I have a question concerning my total alkalinity. I started out nearly at 300 when I filled my pool, and I have been adding acid, and it has came down slowly but steady to about 160 - 170 area. It has been stuck there for the last week or better. My pH slowly rises to 7.5 and I am adding acid to get it to 7.2, pretty much daily, just like I have always done since my fill, but my TA seems to be locked where it is. PH continues to adjust accordingly, but my TA is staying right where it's at. Prior it came down a little bit, pretty steady, but not anymore. Any ideas or advice? Or just keep doing what I'm doing?


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    If you want to keep lowering it, just keep doing what you are doing.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    That's the plan, to keep doing what I'm doing. I was just curious if this is normal? Is it not unusual for it to be dropping and then just get stuck? Overall everything's been going great, I have crystal-clear water and been enjoying the pool. I would like to get the TA down to where I don't have to adjust pH daily. I just did not know if I should let the pH rise higher and then adjust it, would that make a difference? Currently I've been lowering at 7.5, maybe I should let it rise a bit higher before adjusting?


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    What is the TA of your fill water? Has there been a little more evaporation recently? Yes, you will get more TA reduction if you let PH climb to 7.8 and then lower to 7.2.
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    Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    The TA of my fill water was right around 300. It came down slowly but surely until it got to this point and then pretty much stopped. Temperatures have risen somewhat, but not enough to cause any significant evaporation, and we have gotten some rain which I'm sure helps lower it. So far I have not had to add any water since the rain has pretty much maintained it. I will let it rise to 7.8 before I lower to see if that helps. I'm sure everything is fine, I was just curious why it stopped dropping at the rate it was. It appears that when you have a lower TA, the lowering process slows down. Thx


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Quote Originally Posted by Lykly View Post
    The TA of my fill water was right around 300. It came down slowly but surely until it got to this point and then pretty much stopped. Temperatures have risen somewhat, but not enough to cause any significant evaporation, and we have gotten some rain which I'm sure helps lower it. So far I have not had to add any water since the rain has pretty much maintained it. I will let it rise to 7.8 before I lower to see if that helps. I'm sure everything is fine, I was just curious why it stopped dropping at the rate it was. It appears that when you have a lower TA, the lowering process slows down. Thx


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, as TA gets lower it takes longer and longer for the pH to rise and less and less acid to get the same pH drop. A lot of things are like that - huge changes initially and then they get slower and slower. Let the air out of a beach ball. It comes rushing out at first and then gets slower and slower and five minutes later the thing still has air in it and you can barely see it shrinking. A red-hot chunk of metal plunged into a tub of water. In two seconds it goes from red hot to cool enough to touch. Five minutes later it's still warmer than the water in the tub. In Calculus, it's known as related rates. But enough trivia...

    You might just check for static electricity buildup on the bottle of R-009. If it builds, the drops stick and are smaller than normal, so you use more, which gives a falsely high reading. The cure is to wipe the tip of the bottle with a damp paper towel before testing. See if that improves your TA reading.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Thanks Richard, I appreciate the explanation and insight. I will wipe my bottle down with a damp cloth prior to the next test to see if that helps, but after you confirming that this is not out of the norm, I feel better about it. I will report back after I do my next test to see if it made a difference.


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Checked it using a damp cloth, got 150. It's a bit lower, but also could be from the latest addition of acid. In any case, it continues to slowly drop everything seems good. Thanks for confirming


    ~14K gallon - AquaRite AQR15 SWG - pool Newly plastered on April 9 2016
    TF100 kit - STA-RITE SYSTEM3 Modular Media Filtration - Model S8M150
    Pool water supply from on site water well = CH of ~350 and TA of ~350
    Doheny's Discovery Automatic Robotic Cleaner/Pentair Model 011018 VS Pump
    Sundance Altamar Hot tub separate from pool / central Oklahoma

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Can the experts read the first post in this thread. From
    Prior threads I understood that the TA in the example from the first post would be 140 because once it turns red you were not concerned with the degree of the redness. However, in the above posts you seem to be saying that you agree the TA is 170. I think that contradicts advice from prior threads.

    Please clarify.
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    This is one of the threads where I thought it was said once you get blue you stop and ignore that future drops give you a darker blue. In case this paste doesn't work the thread was entitled "CH test weirdness"
    CH test weirdness


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    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Always add drops until the last drop causes no further color change and do not count the last drop.

    Same goes for all of the tests.
    Whelp …. I learn something everyday!! I have not been doing the testing completely correct!! Thanks for the help all!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by grottoguy View Post
    Can the experts read the first post in this thread. From
    Prior threads I understood that the TA in the example from the first post would be 140 because once it turns red you were not concerned with the degree of the redness. However, in the above posts you seem to be saying that you agree the TA is 170. I think that contradicts advice from prior threads.

    Please clarify.
    This is what I have always thought to be true as well …. looking forward to further insight ….
    Thanks!!
    18ft x 36ft 24500 gal vinyl liner inground
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    Hayward cartridge filter

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    As jblizzle points out, you are looking for a color SHIFT, not a change in intensity.

    On ALL of these tests, the endpoint is when there is no further color SHIFT.

    Be careful not to overthink these tests. When I test, I personally don't see much change in intensity but I do see the shift and it's pretty easy to see when it stops.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    So correct me if I'm wrong but based on what you are saying Dave I think the TA in the first post of this thread would be 140. OT Pirate indicated it would be 170 and no one corrected that statement and I think that is what caused the confusion.
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    It should be 170.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Question regarding testing TA with TF100 kit

    Ok, so if the answer is 170, then the advice from TFT Expert 257WbyMag (see link to thread CH WEIRDNESS in post number 15 above) is wrong. He said that "Your endpoint is just blue. Once you get to blue (not bluish purple), that's when you stop. There is no need to attempt to achieve a darker blue and it need not be a vivid or striking shade." I thought Chem Geek was confirming that position in the same thread when he subsequently said "It's mainly a change in hue and when that doesn't change then that's the end. It can be a little subtle to distinguish between a change in hue vs. saturation..."

    When I test,the change in deepneess of color is usually just one drop, so it is not a major issue, but Lykly had a three point differential,and that is why I am laboring on the issue.
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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