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Thread: More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

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    MarkTX's Avatar
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    More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

    Hello,

    I have a simple question that I have been struggling with. Lets say my target FC is 6. If I put in enough bleach to get to 10, will I lose (or waste) more bleach to UV during the next 24 hours, than if I had put in enough to get only to 7? (assuming pool is clean, clear, and CYA = 40)

    Put another way, can a fixed amount of UV break down a fixed amount of chlorine, regardless of chlorine ppm? Or does the break down increase with higher chlorine concentrations?

    I hope my question makes sense. I know I could experiment and come up with an "answer," but I would still not be sure. Too many variables involved. This is a real brain teaser to me.
    Last edited by MarkTX; 05-04-2016 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Added CYA
    30,000 gal free-form IG w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair 3 HP Intelliflo, extra pump that is way over-sized for weeping moss rocks, Dolphin Oasis Z5, municipal water, all built Jan-Feb 2016. TF-100, SpeedStir, Liquidator 3/8", borates. My build thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-in-Cypress-TX

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

    You do lose more faster at higher FC levels. But CYA helps buffer that.

    Wrap your head around this thread, especially the third graph.
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    Re: More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

    The way I like to state it (while maybe slightly over-simplified) ... the CYA will protect a % of the FC in the pool. Assume that 50% is protected and 50% is lost (for some CYA level). Starting at 7ppm, you will lose 3.5ppm. Starting at 10ppm, you will lose 5ppm. So the higher you raise the FC above the recommended levels, the more ppm of FC will be lost to the sun.
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    MarkTX's Avatar
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    Re: More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    You do lose more faster at higher FC levels. But CYA helps buffer that.

    Wrap your head around this thread, especially the third graph.
    That is a great thread!

    This part I understand:
    You do lose more faster at higher FC levels. But CYA helps buffer that.

    The other part:
    Trying to understand. But there is no "mind blown" emoji

    Thanks, you answered the question

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    The way I like to state it (while maybe slightly over-simplified) ... the CYA will protect a % of the FC in the pool. Assume that 50% is protected and 50% is lost (for some CYA level). Starting at 7ppm, you will lose 3.5ppm. Starting at 10ppm, you will lose 5ppm. So the higher you raise the FC above the recommended levels, the more ppm of FC will be lost to the sun.
    I can understand that, too. Thank you!
    30,000 gal free-form IG w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair 3 HP Intelliflo, extra pump that is way over-sized for weeping moss rocks, Dolphin Oasis Z5, municipal water, all built Jan-Feb 2016. TF-100, SpeedStir, Liquidator 3/8", borates. My build thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-in-Cypress-TX

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

    FC loss to UV light is a function of the active chlorine concentration (HOCl/OCl-). The hypochlorite ion (OCl-) is most susceptible to UV photolysis and, as UV uses it up, the HOCl/OCl- equilibrium shifts to create more OCl- since the ratio of HOCl to OCl- is fixed at a given pH (at pH 7.5 the ratio is roughly 1:1).

    CYA binds up most of the chlorine and lowers the overall active chlorine level. As you increase the FC/CYA ratio by adding more FC to a fixed CYA level, you are creating more OCl-. So the FC loss rate goes up since photolysis is a 1st order reaction rate, the rate of photolysis is proportional to the concentration of the species reacting to the UV light.
    Matt
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    MarkTX's Avatar
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    Re: More FC = More UV Chlorine Loss?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    FC loss to UV light is a function of the active chlorine concentration (HOCl/OCl-). The hypochlorite ion (OCl-) is most susceptible to UV photolysis and, as UV uses it up, the HOCl/OCl- equilibrium shifts to create more OCl- since the ratio of HOCl to OCl- is fixed at a given pH (at pH 7.5 the ratio is roughly 1:1).

    CYA binds up most of the chlorine and lowers the overall active chlorine level. As you increase the FC/CYA ratio by adding more FC to a fixed CYA level, you are creating more OCl-. So the FC loss rate goes up since photolysis is a 1st order reaction rate, the rate of photolysis is proportional to the concentration of the species reacting to the UV light.
    Oh my, I have much book-learnin to do. Thank you JN! It seems unanimous.
    30,000 gal free-form IG w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair 3 HP Intelliflo, extra pump that is way over-sized for weeping moss rocks, Dolphin Oasis Z5, municipal water, all built Jan-Feb 2016. TF-100, SpeedStir, Liquidator 3/8", borates. My build thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-in-Cypress-TX

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