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Thread: 1.65sfhp single speed is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my stats?

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    1.65sfhp single speed is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my stats?

    Went to open the pool and my Intermatic with digital timer would just click but the motor wouldn't turn over.

    Here's what I've done so far to troubleshoot:
    Impeller turns over just fine, smooth as butter.
    Checked capacitor with a digital multi meter with capacitance check and it checked out just fine
    With Intermatic 'on', I see 120v on each leg going to my Emerson single speed EB848 1.0hp 230v 1.65sf 7.7a motor (1.65hp effective).

    Current pool specs are in signature below.

    I calculate that I'm @ 31.25 gpm and I did the ghetto calculation for head feet by averaging the distance in feet for all my pool lines to get to 93.5. My pool is pretty simple. 2 skimmers, 1 side suction, 1 main drain.

    With the 31.25 gpm and 93.5 ft/head it appears my 1.65hp motor might actually be a bit undersized comparing to some charts on the internet. To run my PoolCleaner 2X (which I LOVE) at the correct # of wheel rotations per minute I had to neuter the rest of my system by shutting off the valve to my main drain completely and run my skimmers at ~70% of full open.

    I'd love to be able to run my pool 90% of the time at low speed just to make the SWG work, and then high speed as needed or on a daily basis to get my PoolCleaner 2X to work. Oh and don't hate me, but my energy is only 8.24c per kWh

    I started to take apart the motor from the Whisperflo plate. That was a fun procedure as the mounting bolts had basically welded themselves to the plate because of a small leak I had and salt water coating the bolts. The plate's nuts busted out. Oh joy, new plate time.

    Yeah, I have no idea why the motor isn't working anymore. Ha!


    So now I'm at a dilemma.
    1) I could simply replace the 1.65 effective hp single speed motor with another single speed motor.
    2) I could upgrade to a 2 speed higher hp motor.
    3) I could do xyz?

    I started pricing up a 2hp replacement using my current pump and I'm already @ $520+, ouch.
    Motor plate: $53
    Rebuild kit (gaskets, bearings): $20
    Motor (Century / AO) B2984 2.0hp/0.25hp 1.30SF 3450/1725rpm: $385
    Strainer Basket (the lip was broken): $13
    2hp impeller upgrade from a 1.5hp impeller (needed?): $50

    And I still haven't figured out what I'm gonna use to program it. I'd like to stay away from using a manual low/high switch. So something that is programmable for a dual speed as well as freeze protection timer will be needed.

    At this point I think it might be less of a headache if I just ditch the repair route and just buy a new pump/motor all together.
    My electric company is offering a $400 rebate on a variable speed. I wasn't even looking at a VS but with the rebate, I'm now interested, lol. I currently have a quote request out to a pool company asking how much one would be (honestly I'd rather install it myself).

    So I guess my questions boil down to this:
    1) What kind of pump/motor is right for me? What brand, model? Are any other factors needed before deciding?
    2) How to control a 2spd/VS motor with a programmer?

    Many thanks in advance. I <3 TFP for the 2 years I've owned and maintained my pool myself following your guides.
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    You can not calculate the head loss like you did and there really is no point in do so.

    Generally you are better off with the smallest pump that will provide flow for your specific needs.
    Did you have a problem with the amount of flow the pump was providing?
    If not, just get the equivalent 2-speed motor and put it on your existing pump.

    Although if you can get a good rebate, then I would just get one of the smaller VS pumps.

    BTW, I see no signature.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Oops, sig was turned off. I turned it back on.

    I guess I had a problem with the fact I had to shut off my main drain valve as well as diminish both of my skimmers suction so I'd have enough suction to properly operate the PoolCleaner 2X.
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Oh now I see you have a Whisperflo 1.5HP pump ... that is a pretty big pump. Way bigger than the 1HP Superflo 2-speed that I have that also runs my large solar array. I run the same vac and probably keep about 1/3 of the suction coming from the skimmer and the rest to the vac.

    So you have a floor drain, and 2 skimmers, and a dedicated suction line for the cleaner? You would need a huge pump to be able to run all 4 lines with signification suction.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hawk View Post
    I guess I had a problem with the fact I had to shut off my main drain valve as well as diminish both of my skimmers suction so I'd have enough suction to properly operate the PoolCleaner 2X.
    That's pretty normal. I have to do the same but I have a much smaller pump too. The issue really isn't that the pump isn't big enough but that the path to the cleaner has much higher head loss than the skimmers and water will naturally take the path of least resistance so you must force it to go through the cleaner (basically equalizing head loss through the various paths). Nature of the beast.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hawk View Post
    Oh and don't hate me, but my energy is only 8.24c per kWh
    Haha

    No hate, mine is 6.35c per kWh

    I had a leaking superpump that seemed a bit oversized for my needs and priced out 2-speed and vs pumps.
    Decided to just fix the leak (new seal kit) and wait to see how much more it costs per month to run the pump
    3 hours per day.

    Just found out on my latest electric bill. It's $ 10 more per month. So I won't be doing a 2 speed or vs.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    With power that cheap, even with a rebate, the VS pump may not save more power over a 2-speed in its lifetime to be worth it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Ah! Thanks guys for realigning my expectations about suction when running my cleaner.

    I guess as long as there aren't floating surface debris when running my skimmers then my skimmers are doing their job and I shouldn't worry about the details of how much 'valve' they're getting.
    I also guess having the main drain shut off isn't that big of a deal cause, well, the cleaner is on the floor anyway. Right?

    Now I'm starting to question if running a 2spd on low would not only have enough flow for my SWG but also for my skimmers.

    I know with my low power bill it'll take years upon years to recoup the cost. A double edge sword here cause I'd really love to go geothermal and wind to appease the hippy side of me.
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hawk View Post
    Now I'm starting to question if running a 2spd on low would not only have enough flow for my SWG but also for my skimmers.
    The SWG should be no problem and since you have a fairly large pump, it is more likely the skimmers will work ok although you are running two.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    I'm assuming making the pump 'smaller' would be better then when running in low speed? And by making it smaller, I would go to the next size down in horsepower impeller?
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    If by better you mean lower energy cost, then yes. But skimming is reduced as flow rate is reduced so that may force you to run on high speed.

    This is one of the advantages of a VS, you can dial in the minimum speed required so everything works properly.

    Do you use a pool cover? If so, daily skimming is somewhat pointless anyway.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    We had a solar cover but gave it away as we never used it (to lazy).

    Which brings up another point. We've asked two outfits here in town for a quote for solar panels for heating and they both say they don't install. Grr. I'd love to add on a month to the opening and closing of our pool as right now we only get about 5-6 months use as is.
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Without a cover, you will need probably twice the panel area and get twice the temperature swings over the day than with a cover.

    But check some of the major panel manufacturing sites and see if they have dealers in your area. Some may travel quite a ways too.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    You may want to consider having some flow through the bottom drain just so you don't have stagnated water present. Why give alge a place to breed.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Wasp, ah... didn't think about the need to have flow near the bottom (pool is ~5ft average depth). I assumed the chlorine would get mixed up enough as is with just the skimmers running and wind chopping the surface.

    Quick question on impellers.

    My current impeller is rated @ 1.65 SFHP. If I were to go to a 2.205 or 2.60 SFHP motor (B2983T or B2984T) would I also need to replace the impeller?

    I'm assuming bigger motor, smaller impeller, okay. It's the situation where you go smaller motor, bigger impeller is when you run into a chance of burning the motor out much faster.
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Well crud, those programmable timers tacked onto those motors I listed above don't have freeze protection. GRRRRRRRR!!!!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    You are correct, bigger motors on smaller impellers is safe.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Just to be clear, you can end up with stagnant water in the drain and piping.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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    Mike Hawk's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    I need more coffee... lol. Thanks WASP. For being so intelligent I'm so dumb sometimes. Derp derp.
    2007 Gunite 15k Pump: Whisperflo Motor: B2983 2spd 2.2/0.28 SFHP Sand Filter: TR100 SWG: Aqua Rite T15 Timer: PF1102T w/ redneck SPDT toggle switch Vacuum: Milliard 19" manual / PoolCleaner 2X auto

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 1.65hp single speed motor is dead. Looking to upgrade. Can someone look over my s

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hawk View Post
    Well crud, those programmable timers tacked onto those motors I listed above don't have freeze protection. GRRRRRRRR!!!!
    Don't you close your pool before the freeze sets in?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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