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Thread: Water chemistry help

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    lafonte98's Avatar
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    Water chemistry help



    Hello,

    I am new to this forum and need some advice. I have a 30,000 gallon salt water pool with cell generator. The bottom of my pool is concrete with a plaster finish. I have had some issues with scaling and have some discoloration. The calcium hardness is extremely high so I have been adding the magenta stuff to help with this issue. As you see from the picture my free chlorine levels and total chlorine levels are high as well. The place that put my pool in (2012) tells me to boost my generator weekly. I do not understand why I should do this when my levels are already so high. Can't I just not boost until the levels drop down to closer to normal or even wait until they get lower than normal and then boost? Last summer I had 2 people have issue with their eyes being red from opening them underwater and I think it is due to the high level of chlorine.

    Also I called the company Jacks Magic about using the magenta stuff due to my calcium hardness levels and they said to keep my alkalinity low along with the PH. What is exremly odd is my hardness level is low during the winter months but spikes up as soon as the pool is opened. Like I said I have some grayish cloud looking spots on the bottom of the pool, I don't know if they are rough at this time since it is too cold to get in. How do I battle this issue? Advice and or tips would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Greg Gammon

    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    lefty51's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Hello Greg, welcome

    You've come to the right spot, there is someone with the right answer to every question here. As you will soon hear, I suggest you start by reading the ABC's on the home page.

    Others will be along with links for adding your pool particulars in your signature so we know what we're dealing with. Also number one rule, get your own test kit (TF100) is my recommendation as we never ever trust pool store testing.

    There will be someone along shortly who will help you with the staining, in the mean time look around all you want and again welcome

    P.S. -nice looking pool, I really like the night view, Si

    Looking at the tests I see you have an SWG. The section on SWG will be extremely helpful in showing you what levels to run at to keep your generator happy. I have salt and the numbers they recommend keep mine humming along.

    As far as your plaster finish and high CH, I would rather one of the folks with knowledge in this area help you. I'm a vinyl liner guy

    All that being said, I can't empathize enough how important having your own test kit. We can't help you without accurate numbers that you and us trust.
    Last edited by lefty51; 05-04-2016 at 08:29 AM. Reason: more detail
    Si -central Mo. 32' x 16' -- 3'4" to 6' deep Vinyl liner - 16,500 Gals : Triton II filter -Duraglass 2 hp pump - 1 speed : SI-30 salt generator
    TF-100 with speedstir

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    lafonte98's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Hey Lefty51,

    Thanks for the information and the compliment on my pool! I just ordered the taylor techologies test kit k-2006. It should be here this weekend. I just got sick of my pool place giving me bad advice. Glad I found this forum.

    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    The eye issue is more likely an issue with the low pH. The pH of tears is about 7.4 on average. Recommended pH range is 7.4 to 7.8. With your CYA level, 5 ppm of FC is not going to be harsh on eyes or skin. See the Chlorine/CYA chart in my signature.

    Once you have your kit, post full test results and we can get you going. Based on the numbers from the pool store, your CSI shows about -0.6, which would be indicative of a corrosive condition for your plaster pool. However, giving advice based on typically shoddy pool store testing is not something we do around here, so your results would be best. If your pH is indeed low, this also could be an issue for your heater, if you have one. Speaking of that, please update your signature with as many details about your pool as you can. Edit Signature Best to do that from a web browser.

    Welcome!
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Greg, ordering the K-2006 was step #1. Perfect. We won't make any assumptions yet until you get that kit and post your own numbers. Believe it or not, we trust YOU more than the pool store. Some things to keep in mind until the kit arrives .... calcium stains and scale occur not only because of high CH in the water, but also because the pH and TA were allowed to get too high as well. It's all related to something we call the CSI level (Calcium Saturation Index). We watch it in our Poolmath Calculator (link below in my sig). But until we see your test results, everything is just guessing. We want you to not only have clear water and a nice pool, but to save time and money at the same time. It's not difficult, but the pool industry seems to want everyone to think it is. So for now, simply maintain a reasonable FC level with regular bleach or SGW if you use one, and don't put anything else in the water at this time. Your K-2006 will tell us everything we need to know.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Texas Splash,

    As soon as I get the test I will be sure to post the results. I do not see your signature. I'm on the mobile app is that why?

    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Thanks so much. I can't wait to get that test kit and post the results for you all to look over.

    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    I updated my signature with the details of my pool. Please let me know if I am missing information that may be helpful.
    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Looks good. Do you have a spa attached to pool? If not, remove the "pool/spa" part and just say Easytouch so people don't mix that up.

    What are fiberglass kit walls? I've never heard of that. I need to go google that.

    The gray stains are likely scale. We can definitely help you with the scale and getting your SWG working without boosting. You are receiving typical poor advice from your pool store. We call it being pool stored.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Looks good. Do you have a spa attached to pool? If not, remove the "pool/spa" part and just say Easytouch so people don't mix that up.

    What are fiberglass kit walls? I've never heard of that. I need to go google that.

    The gray stains are likely scale. We can definitely help you with the scale and getting your SWG working without boosting. You are receiving typical poor advice from your pool store. We call it being pool stored.
    It is a pool only, I see how that can be confusing and will be sure to remove it. The fiberglass kit is literally just a kit of pieces of walls the connect together. See pictures below. I got my pool test kit in the mail yesterday but haven't had time to do a complete test. Plan to do so this weekend. I did test PH 7.4, Alk 50, CH was 850 and is freaking me out. My water has always looked pretty crystal clear but I have always battled calcium hardness for whatever reason. I have even drained pool and started all over as instructed by the company who put my pool in. I'm just tired of dealing with them and it's a hassle to take my water to them to test. Any help on here would be great, actually people on here have already been amazing so I know I'm in the right place for knowledgeable advice.




    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    That is a nice looking pool Welcome to TFP...

    You PH looks good, you TA is a little low and your CH is high but we will need all your tests to see where you are on the CSI scale..

    When you do a full test on your pool water could also test and post your tap water, that will give us an idea of how to tackle your high CH and scaling/stains
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    lafonte98's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Thanks for the welcome message!!! Will do Casey. Also, I need to mention that I ran a soft water line next to my regular outdoor faucet outside. So I have water from my water softner to use or just straight water from the city. I was told by my water softener manufacturer that it can only keep up to about 500 gallons before it is overloaded and is just sending out unsoftened water. Not sure if it can even do that much to be honest. I will test the normal water from the faucet as well as the water from the softener faucet.
    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Test results from 5/7/2016 K-2006 test kit used

    Water temp 68 degrees

    FC = 8.2ppm on a 25ml sample

    CC = .2ppm

    PH = 7.4

    ALK = 50ppm

    CH = 825

    CA = 55ppm

    Tap water CH = 500

    Water Softener CH = 110

    All advice is appreciated.

    I am so tired of getting advice from the pool store.
    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Looks okay. Did you get a chance to test/add CYA yet? Or is that on-hold for the PB's plaster start-up process? Your FC doesn't need to be that high if there is no stabilizer added yet, so be careful of that.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    CYA is 55ppm

    How can I lower my FC? I did not add stabilizer but i think they did when opening the pool. Since the hardness is so high I have been told to add 32oz of the Magenta Stuff made by Jack's Magic. Would you recommend doing that as well?
    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Water chemistry help

    Do whatever the PB says to do at start-up for your warranty. It's common to use a product like that in the beginning. For your own benefit, you might like to read the Pool School - Start-up New Plaster page just so you know what your PB might be doing, and what you can expect in the coming months. Yes, the FC will sink on its own. A CYA of 55 (round-up to 60) has an FC target of 7. So actually you're okay there. That hard water will require you to be exceptionally vigilant on watching your pH over the first year. Please get VERY familiar with the Poolmath calculator and the "CSI" row. Enter your numbers from top to bottom then look at what the CSI shows. You don't want to go over 0.6, Closer to neutral is better. That's where watching your pH and TA come into play with naturally high CH. Practice it and you'll see what I mean.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Water chemistry help

    When should I boost? My Salt Generator is currently set on 20% output. The pool store tells me to boost weekly but I do not see a reason to since my FC is already above normal.
    30,000 Gallon Salt water, size (20ft x 26ft x 36ft), depth 3 1/2ft to 8 1/2ft. Plaster bottom with fiberglass kit walls installed in 2012. Pentair Filter (FNSP48) uses D.E. Motor is Pentair WFE-24 / 011517, HP 1.0 Easy Touch control system

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