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Thread: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    Many people struggle with stains, so I thought I'd take advantage of the fact that I accidentally added well water instead of softened to my fountain as an opportunity for a visual demo

    When iron or copper are oxidized via elevated chlorine levels, which is what happened in pic #1 at raw well level of 2 ppm iron, that's what you get. Add enough HEDP metal sequestrant (I used Metal Magic by proteam, a few ounces) and the second picture is the SAME water.

    But it wears off, which is why you need to maintain it
    Hoping to be helpful.

    image.jpgimage.jpg
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    WOW! So how long will it last? Do you put chlorine in the fountain? Does that change the water any?

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    It's magic! Oh wait ...... Metal Magic. Good to see.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    Yeah, sorry the pcs sideways, looks upright on he ipad.

    Kim, I do add chlorine to fountain. Normally don't add sequestrant because normally I fill with the softened water but I have a new irrigation setup on the terrace and forgot it was well water I guess I'll now find out how long it lasts at this ppm and in the fountain!
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    Hi, Thank you for posting this. Does this mean you do not need to do an ascorbic acid treatment in the pool, just add the metal magic and it will look that great?? I am getting ready to do the Jacks test and then AA treatment when water temp chlorine and ph are in line, sure would be nice to be able to just pour your magic in. Thank you for any help.
    pool 11-14,IG 16,500G 4ft to 6ft Quartz Tahoe Blue Pentair equip VS pump cartridge filter IC40 SWG Heat Pump Hayward Shark XL Robotic Eagle Point, Or

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    Hi Paulette. That can depend on the stains -- there is a way to test. Here's the link: http://www.proteampoolcare.com/image...SpongeTest.pdf

    Metal Magic is just a sequestrant, which you have to use during an AA treatment anyway. But in your case with SWG, you might be better off using Jack's Magic Purple because its formulated to work with SWG and has a cell cleaner in it.

    Generally, TFP has found the AA treatment to be the most reliable/surefire method of stain removal, which is why its the recommended treatment. But sometimes people have trouble having the FC so low, end up with algae, and end up having to shock...which then might bring the stain back. Or alternately, they can bring FC back up too fast, which can also sometimes have stain come back.

    A few seasons back a poster on this forum who didn't like doing the AA treatment shared that he tried just using the large dose (after doing the sponge test) and for him it worked just as well. So I tried it, because it was a bit easier (not necessarily cheaper) than AA. It worked great for me. I'm vinyl with a sand filter and lower calcium. For people with higher calcium, it can cloud for a day or two while working.

    However, I wasn't SWG at the time (just switched) and large amounts of any HEDP metal sequestrant do break down into orthophosphates eventually -- which normally doesn't present any actual issue, but some SWG manufacturers like Pentair refer to water balance guidelines that include lower phosphate levels (Hayward doesn't.)

    Most of the phosphate talk by pool stores is garbage for those who know TFP...how to test their water and maintain FC to the CYA ratio as shown in the link in my signature But there has been some research in the boiler industry, where the same sequestrants are relied on heavily, that suggests orthophosphate in really high levels can scale, especially if calcium is high.

    Are you on well water? Are you already using a metal sequestrant? How bad is your staining? And do you know if its iron, or copper?

    If you've not just tried using a sequestrant alone, you might want to do that first (eg Jacks Magic Purple) to see if you actually need to do the AA or not. Maybe something like the same sponge test would work to give you an idea if Jack's will have the same effect stain-wise.

    Over the last few seasons, I've also called the tech line at both proteam and Jacks on different occasions and gotten helpful information. If you want to try Metal Magic, you coud check first with them to see if it works the same way in a saltwater pool.

    Good luck with the stains whichever way you go!

    Here's the original thread. Note that both RaveJim and I had regular chlorine pools at the time of experiment, not SWG: Switching Sequestrate from EDTA to HEDP - Page 2
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Visual Example of Iron Versus Metal Sequestrant

    Hi Swampwoman, THANK YOU so much for this info. I have done the Vitamin C, rub a tab on and it removed the stain. No luck with the puck. So figure it is iron or copper. I am waiting for all the items to arrive to do the AA treatment. I have Jacks stain kit now waiting for water temp to raise. I also got a great tip about the polyfil to try and catch the metal, so also waiting for that to arrive. I will post my results after AA treatment.
    ps was just hoping could find and easy way and just add one thing like your fountain. lol
    pool 11-14,IG 16,500G 4ft to 6ft Quartz Tahoe Blue Pentair equip VS pump cartridge filter IC40 SWG Heat Pump Hayward Shark XL Robotic Eagle Point, Or

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