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Thread: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

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    Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    We bought our house 4 years ago with the pool already installed. I've been going to our local pool store for the past 4 years and it seems like every year we have to battle something. I can't tell you how many gallons of algaecide and floc have gone into my pool in that time frame. So this year we are on to bigger and better practices!

    When we uncovered our pool (that was closed by the pool store last year) it was pond scum green. Before finding this site I added algaecide and liquid shock. Later that day I found this site and ordered my TF-100 test kit. The holy grail arrived in the mail today! I've been adding a gallon of bleach each night until the kit arrived. After much anticipation I finally have numbers to get the ball rolling. I know that I need to do a SLAM, but any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have been brushing the pool and vacuuming it as well.

    FC - .5
    CC - 4
    PH - 7.5
    CH - 200
    TA - 110
    CYA - 0 (none, zip, zero, zilch)

    Jaime, Greeneville TN
    18' x 32' Inground with Vinyl liner with Haywood sand filter, approximately 24,000 gallons
    TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    And what a pretty beach it is too! LOVE that you have a good test kit already! You are ready to rock now!

    Lets do a 10 mins FC test please:

    -Add in enough chlorine to get your FC to 5 using http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html Make sure the pump is running. Wait 10 mins and retest the FC. Tell us what you find please.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Kim beat me to the post! Raahhhhhhhhhh!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    How long after adding that bleach did you test? When you have low FC, high CC shortly after adding chlorine (as well as disappeared CYA) that is a very good indication you have an ammonia problem. Over the winter even if the FC drops to zero for extended periods, bacteria can convert your CYA into ammonia. Ammonia in your pool will have a HUGE chlorine demand, almost immediately consuming the bleach you add to the pool. In your case, you need to do a "pre-SLAM" before your SLAM.

    Instead of putting CYA into your pool as you would to start a normal SLAM procedure, you should not add CYA yet. To deal with the ammonia, it's best not to add CYA to the pool, until you've consumed all the ammonia. To do this, use Pool Math to target 10 ppm FC for your pool. Add this dosage in bleach. Circulate the pool for at least 10 minutes, then test again. Repeat dosing to 10 FC until you get your FC to test at or nearly at your target FC of 10. What will happen each time you dose is that after a short time, you'll have very little FC (less than 2 ppm) and very high CC due to ammonia quickly reacting with hypochlorite and forming combined chloramines (CCs). Once all the ammonia has been consumed, then your FC will hold and the CC levels will decrease to 1 or 2 ppm. At this point, you have eliminated the ammonia and can start the SLAM procedure by first adjusting your pH to about 7.2 and adding CYA to your pool. Use Pool Math again to calculate how much CYA you need to add to target 30 ppm CYA. Then you can start the SLAM procedure, proper.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Welcome!

    That pool doesn't look so bad -- you can see beyond the first step, even!

    Two things pop out. Well three... The biggest is Congratulations on taking control and getting the primo test kit. Now back to my first thoughts. With a green pool and no CYA, there's a chance your CYA broke down into Ammonia. Kim's got you checking for that. If you do, then it's worth taking ten minutes to sit down and crunch some numbers and think things over because a partial drain and refill will probably cost less than the bleach to eliminate 10000 gallons of Ammonia water.
    The other is that algaecide you added. Find the bottle, or look for the receipt, do something to figure out exactly what you added. If it has copper compounds in it, there's another argument for a partial water replacement.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Wow! Thanks for the quick replies! I was worried that I may have an ammonia issue after reading some of the other posts. I was about to go out and start the 10 mins, until I received a text message saying we are under a severe thunderstorm warning. I guess it will have to wait until it passes us by! I have not added any bleach since last night. Ugh, I just looked up the algaecide that we used. It does contain Copper, Chlorox Algaecide XtraBlue.
    Jaime, Greeneville TN
    18' x 32' Inground with Vinyl liner with Haywood sand filter, approximately 24,000 gallons
    TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    One thing's for sure ..... metal doesn't go away once it's in. So Richard's partial water replacement is sounding pretty attractive right about now. It won't totally relieve you of doing the 10-min drill, or having to SLAM after that, but might help eliminate the side effects of copper in the water (i.e. tinting, green hair, stains, etc). Darn pool store!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Yeah you DO need to sit inside with a cold one! Stay safe! When it is safe do the 10 mins drill and let us know.......the water is not going anywhere!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Welcome to TFP, I agree you may want to look at draining some of that water out.. It will take some of the copper out and may not be bad in the long run..
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Good morning! I added 132 oz of bleach at 10% to get my FC levels up to 5. Before I started a had a FC reading of .5 and a CC reading of 1, I'm hoping that I did that right. After checking the reading after 10 minutes my chlorine numbers are:

    FC - 4
    CC - 3

    Do I need to do a partial water change? I guess the big concern now is the Copper? Advice?
    Jaime, Greeneville TN
    18' x 32' Inground with Vinyl liner with Haywood sand filter, approximately 24,000 gallons
    TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    I went ahead and took a sample again tonight since I'm not sure what step to take next. Above is the reading from my 10 minute test. Below are the numbers this evening, about 9 hours after the initial dose this morning.

    FC - 4.5
    CC - 1.0

    Should I begin with a SLAM or do I need to do a partial drain due to the copper in the Algaecide? Do I need to do a full set of numbers again? Thanks for any info!
    Jaime, Greeneville TN
    18' x 32' Inground with Vinyl liner with Haywood sand filter, approximately 24,000 gallons
    TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    First, Welcome to TFP!!

    If it were me I would take Richard's route and do a partial water replacement. The copper will always be in solution and water replacement is the only way to remove it. If there is a lot of copper the hard hit of chlorine can sometimes cause the copper to turn the water a bright green.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    So it appears you are able to retain some FC. That's good. That would seem to indicate you don't have ammonia at the moment. Our secondary concern is the copper. It's the unknown in this equation. If you leave the water as-is and start a SLAM, the chlorine (FC) might cause the copper to precipitate out and try to bond with surfaces of the pool causing some stains. Depending on the amount of copper, it could also cause problems with green hair. That's why a few of us suggested that before you add anything else to the water, you might want to consider at least a partial water exchange. BY eliminating some of the water, you will reduce the amount of trace copper minerals as well which would reduce the likelihood of metal staining and other side-effects. I believe the general rule is that if your copper content is over .3ppm, then it can be a problem. While we don't advocate pool store testing, for curiosity you might want to take a sample to the pool store to see what they show for metals. Ignore everything else and leave. If it shows copper over .3 ppm, I'd definitely recommend a partial drain. If it's borderline .... it's your call. We would just hate to see you get the water perfectly clear, only to have a metal staining issue a week later. Give it some thought and let us know how you would like to proceed. We'll help you through it either way.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Thank you all so very much for the help! I have been outside vacuuming the pool, it is currently at the middle of the skimmer. We have had a lot of rain the past few days, so the water level was about 1" above the top of the skimmer. I would venture to guess that I dropped the water down about 4" from where it started today. I will take a sample of the water in tomorrow and we can go from there. I truly appreciate all the help!

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Ok, made it into the pool store. And dang it, copper number is high. The copper is reading .6 and the iron is reading .1. How low do I need to take make water down?
    Jaime, Greeneville TN
    18' x 32' Inground with Vinyl liner with Haywood sand filter, approximately 24,000 gallons
    TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Does your pool average 7 feet of water depth (not wall height)? That's the only way you'd be near 23000 gallons. How long is your shallow end? How long is your deep end? Use the Estimating pool volume section of the Pool Math page to get a better estimate of your volume. You can also use that to calculate how much volume 1 foot of water would remove from your pool, which would be exact since you're removing from the fixed rectangular top height. I would go for a 50% water replacement as the safest option. You could try less than that, such as 30% but if you're going to drain that copper out, might as well go all the way so you don't have to deal with it again. Just make sure when you drain to ALWAYS leave at least a foot of water in the shallowest part of the pool to prevent the liner from shifting.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Gosh, that's what the calculator gave me when I put the numbers in. The deep end is 8' deep. The shallow end is 3.5 or 4'. I'll double check when I get home. The side walls in the deep end do not go straight down, they slope to the deep end from the sides and from the shallow. I'm not sure how to calculate it. I will measure it when we get home to the best of my ability. Let me see if I can find a picture of the pool from last summer.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    I would think an average depth of 5 to 5.5 feet would be a closer estimate so you're in the 19K gallon range. Either way, draining out 2 feet is about 1/3 of your volume.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Good afternoon all, and Happy Mother's Day to all the other momma's out there! I guess I will spend my Mother's Day trying to get the pool read for the kiddos

    So, I have drained the pool until there was about 18" of water left in the shallow end. It has been refilled and here are my current numbers:

    FC - 1.5
    CC - .5
    PH - 7.5
    CH - 125
    TA - 80
    CYA - 0

    I know that I need to add CYA to the water. I purchased 4 pounds from Lowes the other day. I also know that I need to add it by putting it in a sock into the skimmer. My question is do I need to have my CYA levels up before I can start the SLAM?
    Jaime, Greeneville TN
    18' x 32' Inground with Vinyl liner with Haywood sand filter, approximately 24,000 gallons
    TF-100 Test Kit with Speed Stir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like ocean water, but I'm not at the beach...

    Quote Originally Posted by fanov8 View Post
    Good afternoon all, and Happy Mother's Day to all the other momma's out there! I guess I will spend my Mother's Day trying to get the pool read for the kiddos

    So, I have drained the pool until there was about 18" of water left in the shallow end. It has been refilled and here are my current numbers:

    FC - 1.5
    CC - .5
    PH - 7.5
    CH - 125
    TA - 80
    CYA - 0

    I know that I need to add CYA to the water. I purchased 4 pounds from Lowes the other day. I also know that I need to add it by putting it in a sock into the skimmer. My question is do I need to have my CYA levels up before I can start the SLAM?
    No. You just need to know what it is, roughly. Below 30, shock level is 10 FC. Once you add some CYA, assume it's all completely dissolved and use that CYA value to establish shock level.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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