Please help me find my leak!

[mjnorman]

Hey all. You've helped me so far obtain an immaculate crystal clear pool. Thank you for that.

Now that the quality is in order I've determined that I am losing about 1 to 2 inches of water a night. I will top off to mid skimmer and the next day it is down to a third skimmer.

I have replaced all gaskets on my filter housing. I have replaced my psi gauge, overflow faucet on top of the housing as well. I have removed, inspected and applied Teflon tape to all return jets and skimmer feed tube. The ground is wet around the pump and filter, but I can't see anything leaking except for the odd drip here and there which is why I've replaced all that I have.

What can I do to find my resume? Here is a picture of the setup if it helps.

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[mjnorman]

That should say "find my problem" not resume lol darn autocorrect!

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[mjnorman]

I checked both return hoses for pinhole leaks by holding them under the water with air in them and didn't see any bubbles. I also did the food color test by squinting color around various question spots on the liner and still cannot find any leaks!

I don't know what else to do, any ideas out there? I feel like it has to be coming from the pump/filter but I see no drips or anything!

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[Texas Splash]

I just noticed that you've been having a conversation all by yourself on this thread so far. :blah: We need to fix that. As for the leak ..good question. You would think a leak above ground would be very obvious to see. Is there any chance your leak is actually down in the liner? Have you tried leaving circulation off for 12-24 hours to compare water loss? If you turn everything off, and no water is circulating, you would rule-out the pump area for sure.

 

[mjnorman]

The ground is soggy by the pump, but I just can't find any obvious leak. I sprayed food coloring all down the liner seal in that area and I didn't see any obvious suction there. I disconnected the hoses into the pump and out of the filter, reapplied Teflon and reattached.

I'm topping off again tonight and will give it 12 hours with no pump, then 12 without and measure best I can. Anecdotally I haven't noticed a difference since I usually have the pump off during the day since we aren't using it.

About my only things that I'm looking at now is the drain plug at bottom of filter which has some seeping I guess you would call it. And the pump filter cap doesn't seem as tight is it should be, but again I don't see any signs of leakage.

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[Texas Splash]

Sneaky little bugger. Stay at it, but don't lose your sanity. When all else fails ............

 

[mjnorman]

Hah thanks Texas. Need that more than you know!

So I'm trying to find this leak, and here is what I did. I put a stopper in the skimmer inlet. I put a cap on my top return jet. I closed off my valve on return from filter.

I still lost about an inch of water last night. So to me that says either a) liner leak which I doubt because no signs of leakage or b) leak in bottom return jet or line

I do feel a bit of water around the return connection screw adapter. So I think it's in my best interest to just replace both return connectors, my shutoff valve on return side, and maybe even hoses too.

Any suggestions on the right way to do this? Since I'm disconnecting everything again I'd like to do it right the first time.

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[mjnorman]

Here is my setup I inherited so please all suggestions welcome!!

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[Rcckks96]

I went through the same thing last year. It turned out to be a small hole in the vinyl liner. The only way I found the hole was by making the pool completely spotless by vacuuming over and over until not a spec of dirt remained. Well, one spec remained - or what I thought was a spec, until I put on some goggles, dove down, and figured out it was a tiny hole. My suggestion - completely clean the pool, and then throw on some goggles and cover every inch of the pool looking for even what looks like a spec of dirt. Good luck!

 

[cowboycasey]

Hey there, glad to help

Ok, plumbing... can you completely block all connections coming or going to the pool, skimmer, return, everything... This will find where the leak is at, the pool or the plumbing.. You can use a rubber winterizing plug like this Rubber Winterizing Expansion Plug 1.5 Fitting, Plug Size 10 - Bathtub Drains - Amazon.com they are cheaper on amazon but they also have them at lowes/HD, use one in each hole.

before you block everything off take your water to SLAM level for your CYA, this will keep your FC up while you are not running your pump.

Wait 24 hours, does the pool water go down? if so you have a hole in the liner, if not it is in the plumbing..

If it is in the liner it is literally looking for a needle in a haystack, I have no idea how to track down a hole in the liner other than food dye and a very long weekend

On to plumbing

Can you get close up shots of your skimmer, returns, pump inlet and outlet and the filter outlet and post them, it will give us a better idea on how to go about this.

If you do hard pipe everything I would get rid of that aqua smart. I need to see if the pipe going into and out of the filter is screw in or is it glued in? this will be important on how we go about this.

I hard plumbed everything and here is what I used and it works great, no leaks what so ever

for every return Amazon.com : Hayward SP1023G Vinyl Fiberglass Inlet Fittings for Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs : Swimming Pool Maintenance Kits : Patio, Lawn Garden
Jandy neverlube 3 way, they are great Amazon.com : Jandy 4715 3-Port 1-1/2 to 2-Inch Positive Seal NeverLube Valve : Swimming Pool Filter Valves : Patio, Lawn Garden
I would use 1.5 inch PVC from lowes or HD or wherever it is cheaper, it makes all the connection easier and I think it will work well for you.. you will also need 1.5 inch 90 degree fitting for every turn and straight slip connections to connect pipe together, I bought a bunch and just returned what I did not use, dont tell anyone
get one of these for every return, suction and skimmer going in or out of the pool and depending on the pump pictures you post you may need 2 for the pump, yes they are kind of expensive but they work great CMP 1.5 in. MIP x 1.5 in. PVC Hi-Temp Union 21063-150-000- Nipples Unions Tools - 21063-150-00- Pool Products- MyPoolYard.com
here are a couple of shots of how I did mine to give you an idea of what it would look like

I hope this helps, ask lots of questions

 

[Texas Splash]

Thanks Casey. That's a great illustration. You've taken AGPs to a whole other level.

 

[mjnorman]

Thanks for the info Casey! I did block off the skimmer and top jet with a cap, but didn't do the bottom jet so I guess what I have done so far is not a great test. It was cold don't shoot me

I would imagine though with only the bottom jet open, that would at least limit the leak to liner or bottom jet, hose, or 3 way valve connection right?

I will hop back in there tomorrow and cap off the bottom and see what it looks like. It is enough of a leak where I can see water drop from one night to the next morning.

I don't know about using pvc since we do freeze in TN on occasion in winter and need to move the pump and filter indoors. What are your thoughts on that?

Here are the pics of everything. I can't thank you enough for your help.

Top jet

Bottom jet

Skimmer

Skimmer outlet

Skimmer to pump

Pump to filter

Filter to aqua

3 way

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[cowboycasey]

Don't worry about freezing, i've got that also Tested it this winter and worked perfect... These 5 things and all is good, cost me about 30 bucks from lowes.. usinh these and a shopvac to blow out the lines and all is good...

Ok, reach in there and plug all those holes and report back, that will tell us if its in the pool or outside...

We will then work on getting your plumbing looking great, once you start it is really easy, and the great thing about it is it's plastic, I messed up a couple times... cut the bad piece out and try again

 

[mjnorman]

OK so I just put on the winterizing caps I had on both returns and in the skimmer. I should know by tonight how we look. At minimum I know I need a new pump cap or at least an oring since I can see some dripping that wasn't there before. Can you advise on where I can get one?

On your winter comment do you leave filter and pump out or do you disconnect everything when you close down? I don't quite understand how you are using what you pictured to blow out the lines.

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[mjnorman]

Found this cap for just 10 bucks, assuming these are pretty universal for this size?

Hayward Power-Flo LX Pump Parts For Sale | Doheny's Pool Supplies Fast

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[PridgNYC]

As a side note, you should not use teflon tape on pvc threaded fittings. Installation

 

[mjnorman]

Interesting read pridgNYC. I wonder if that is common knowledge here?

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[cowboycasey]

As a side note, you should not use teflon tape on pvc threaded fittings. Installation

And that is why all my threaded fittings failed miserably makes sense now, I did everything in slip because I could never get them to stop leaking no matter what I tried..

- - - Updated - - -

Found this cap for just 10 bucks, assuming these are pretty universal for this size?

Hayward Power-Flo LX Pump Parts For Sale | Doheny's Pool Supplies Fast

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That sure looks like the correct one

 

[mjnorman]

When you went hard line Cowboy did you seal all joints with standard pvc glue? Even into the valve/pump/filter?

Based on what was posted above about the Teflon I'm betting all of my fittings are trash now because previous owners had a bunch of Teflon on there and I have too.

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[cowboycasey]

I used rain or shine and it is great but it is hot, so you have to glue together fast PVC Rain-R-Shine® Blue Cement | Plastic Pipe Cements & Primers | Oatey

Purple Primer/Cleaner | Plastic Pipe Cements & Primers | Oatey



I used these in my pump and would highly suggest you use the same, it will stop the leaks because it has an o-ring that seats on top of the threads, you can see the o-ring here just above the threads.

CMP 1.5 in. MIP x 1.5 in. PVC Hi-Temp Union 21063-150-000- Nipples Unions Tools - 21063-150-00- Pool Products- MyPoolYard.com

below is what they look like and they connect to both pressure and suction side of pump.. With that said, your pressure side has a direct connection to your filter and that means if you replace that piece you may have to move your filter off that premade stand..

you can do like I did and use 1 inch pavers 18x18 from lowes for your equipment to sit on like below