Bromine Use In a Spa

[Terv]

This is a request for Molson or another senior user to update the "How do I use Bromine in my spa?" thread.

Are the Dichlor/Bleach methods to balance the water applicable to bromine?

Will a TA between 50/60 ppm (minimum set by the APSP) & 80 ppm offset with Borates (boric acid or borax/MA or Gentle Spa) help reduce the pH rise in a spa sanitized with BCDMH pucks? Or is there some reaction between borates and cyanuric acid that affects pH? Or will shocking with dichlor (10 ppm) leave enough CYA residual to make my questions moot?

Perhaps you could update the thread or if there are no changes, add a note with date stating water balance targets are current.

FYI on Ozone: I emailed Del Ozone and asked if they recommended ozone for a spa sanitized with bromine. On their blog there is a chart that says "Not compatible with Bromine" and "Do not use with Ozone". The Del Ozone customer service representative emailed me back stating, "I believe that as a company we could no condone any procedure that may or may not cause harm to the end user. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromate Please see, "Human health issues.

http://www.delozonespa.com/blog/2011/04/13/ozone-interactions-with-alternative-sanitizers/
See section Ozone Interactions with Alternate Sanitizers.


Not a clear answer. And after everything I have read, I still do no not have a clear understanding. So after considerable thought and consideration, I decided to not replace our ozone generator. Right or wrong I will error on the side of caution until an ozone manufacturer publishes something definitive. Clearly, there are no issues with chlorine as evidenced by all the references to ozone and chlorine.

 

[JVTrain]

CYA has no interaction with the bromide/bromine dynamic, that's why it's not listed or discussed in the sticky thread. This also means the dichlor then bleach method does not apply. You can use dichlor to shock a bromine spa, but it will only oxidize the bromide back to bromine as long as there is sufficient bromide bank. There will be CYA in the spa but it will not modulate the strength or protect the bromine from sunlight by holding it in reserve.

The APSP is a decent guideline but does not dictate or govern TFP recommendations. If you review the "How do I use Chlorine in my spa?" sticky, that's a little more descriptive on TA recommendations and those would apply to a bromine spa as well. TA and pH rise don't care whether it's a bromine or chlorine spa. 50-60 ppm TA is a good recommendation for a spa. The addition of bromates should help stabilize pH rise in either a chlorine or bromine pool.

As far as bromine combined with an ozone system, those guidelines you linked specifically say "Bromine and ozone can interact to create bromates, a known carcinogen. WE do not recommend using bromine with ozone, except for use on residential spas." There is also some discussion on that topic here: Will Bromine used with ozone create carcinogens In a nutshell, as usual in the US and to some extent Canada, it's "consumer beware." You can sanitize however you like in your own residential situation as opposed to a commercial setting, at your own risk.

 

[JVTrain]

Also...

Welcome to TFP!

 

[Terv]

Thank you for clarifying the lower TA levels for bromine.

Borates were not included in the "How do I use Bromine in my spa?" thread. I was trying to understand/determine if adding Borates (boric acid or borax/MA or Gentle Spa) to a spa sanitized with bromine in the form BCMDH would help stabilize the pH. The following excerpt about pools is from: http://www.poolspanews.com/facilities/maintenance/borate-chemistry_o and it mentions carbonate and cyanurate. Are bromates recommended for spas sanitized with bromine, just an option that could be used, or not recommended.

"Some technicians swear by borates and will use them as a complete replacement for alkalinity; after all, with the carbonate system it is continuously being lost from the water as CO2. However, borates also work well with carbonate and cyanurate to form three layers of buffering."

Further to the ozone and my question to Del Ozone, I identified the exception for residential spas and asked what differentiated the use of ozone in residential spas to make the use of ozone and bromine safe but not in any other application. The Del Ozone representative responded, "As this would conflict with previous stated information, I'm guessing it's in error. Thank you for bringing this to our attention."

Again I really appreciate your reply.

Thank you.