Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40

Thread: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    323

    Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    My PB said they use a ground fault interrupter system. Does that mean it is grounded instead of bonded? Is bonding required? Got rebar done, plumbing is going on now, and gunite tomorrow. I don't think I saw any copper out there.
    My pool thread. IG 31' x 20', 3.5'/4.5'/6', 8' spa, 4T moss rock WF/WW w/jumping rock, 7' x 11' sunshelf 3 bubblers, travertine coping, spray deck, Hayward equip: SwimClear 525 Cartridge Filter, H400 natural gas heater, Tristar Dual Speed EE pump 2HP, Tristar EE pump 1.5HP for water features, blower 2HP, Prologic P/S 8 w/aqua pod remote, Aqua Rite T-15 Salt System, Tigershark QC robot, networked Colorlogic LEDs 2 pool 1 spa.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,494

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Bonding to the shell rebar is required at four equidistant points around the pool. It need sot be done before gunite so that the wire can be attached with proper fasteners to the rebar. Bonding is also required to the light niche and any metal ladders in the pool. Is there not an electrical inspection in your area prior to gunite?

    They should refer to the National Electrical Code, ARTICLE 680—SWIMMING POOLS, SPAS, HOT TUBS, FOUNTAINS, AND SIMILAR INSTALLATIONS; specifically 680.26 Article 680 - Swimming Pool Installations - Mike Holt

    Grounding and bonding are two different things and both are required.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    323

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    No there is not. What would that look like to I can check before I call the PB?
    My pool thread. IG 31' x 20', 3.5'/4.5'/6', 8' spa, 4T moss rock WF/WW w/jumping rock, 7' x 11' sunshelf 3 bubblers, travertine coping, spray deck, Hayward equip: SwimClear 525 Cartridge Filter, H400 natural gas heater, Tristar Dual Speed EE pump 2HP, Tristar EE pump 1.5HP for water features, blower 2HP, Prologic P/S 8 w/aqua pod remote, Aqua Rite T-15 Salt System, Tigershark QC robot, networked Colorlogic LEDs 2 pool 1 spa.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    There should be a thick copper wire running around the pool and connected to the rebar with clamps in four locations around the pool. There should also be a connection to any light niches. the thick copper wire should run to where your equipment pad is and you should be able to connect it to rebar under the deck.

    This is separate and apart from grounding the lights or the pump or even using a GFCI. Sure a GFCI is required but it does not take the place of or replace bonding the pool.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Pool Tool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Western Chicago Area, IL
    Posts
    754

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    That is a ground fault circuit interrupter, GFCI as its commonly known. That might mean its grounded but that is completely stand alone of bonding. Generally in order for the GFCI to work correctly, the electrical circuit its hooked up has to be be properly grounded, but that's not always the case.

    As for the bonding - every piece of metal, equipment, etc. within 3' of the water needs to be connected together by a bonding wire. This wire effectively charges all the components, be it the pool itself, light, pump, heater, rebar, etc. to be the same voltage. If everything is the same voltage, even if the voltage is very high due to a pump failure, there no potential for current to flow. And every pool must be bonded, most should be bonded per local requirements but for your safety it should be done.

    Note - as I type this I want to clarify my very basic understanding. There is a lot of information on the site and elsewhere regarding bonding, grounding and the differences. Please be sure to vet my comments prior to moving forward. At a minimum, you should continue asking until your comfortable. Update - I see you are getting many responses - good. You will get lots of help.

    Good luck and I am very glad you noticed now, prior to everything being done.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    323

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    PB says that is done at the electrical stage. Can they bond at the electrical stage after gunite?
    My pool thread. IG 31' x 20', 3.5'/4.5'/6', 8' spa, 4T moss rock WF/WW w/jumping rock, 7' x 11' sunshelf 3 bubblers, travertine coping, spray deck, Hayward equip: SwimClear 525 Cartridge Filter, H400 natural gas heater, Tristar Dual Speed EE pump 2HP, Tristar EE pump 1.5HP for water features, blower 2HP, Prologic P/S 8 w/aqua pod remote, Aqua Rite T-15 Salt System, Tigershark QC robot, networked Colorlogic LEDs 2 pool 1 spa.

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Pool Tool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Western Chicago Area, IL
    Posts
    754

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    As long as electrical stage is before gunite stage like Tim mentioned you'll be good. All great questions to ask though.
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,494

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by firehunter View Post
    after gunite?
    Not properly, no
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    323

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    PB says they always bond after and I will see the bonding wire and clamps later. They build in City of Pearland and do it this way too. They must have a way to make it work right, since they build a lot of pools.
    My pool thread. IG 31' x 20', 3.5'/4.5'/6', 8' spa, 4T moss rock WF/WW w/jumping rock, 7' x 11' sunshelf 3 bubblers, travertine coping, spray deck, Hayward equip: SwimClear 525 Cartridge Filter, H400 natural gas heater, Tristar Dual Speed EE pump 2HP, Tristar EE pump 1.5HP for water features, blower 2HP, Prologic P/S 8 w/aqua pod remote, Aqua Rite T-15 Salt System, Tigershark QC robot, networked Colorlogic LEDs 2 pool 1 spa.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    The rebar cage tah you see must be connected as described above. That is pre rebar.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    77

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Ours was bonded after gunite also. The rebar cage had rebar sticking well outside the shell, bent low along the ground, and that is what bond wire was connected to. I don't see how this would be more or less effective than if it were done prior to gunite. It is bonded to the same rebar it would have been bonded to prior, and that rebar and wire were tied into decking rebar.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    323

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Yep here are loops they will bend back and clamp a bond wire to.



    And this is how it is connected to the rebar.



    PB says trust him and don't worry. I had thought there was only one way to do this, but I guess not. Feel very relieved. Thank you everyone for all your help!
    My pool thread. IG 31' x 20', 3.5'/4.5'/6', 8' spa, 4T moss rock WF/WW w/jumping rock, 7' x 11' sunshelf 3 bubblers, travertine coping, spray deck, Hayward equip: SwimClear 525 Cartridge Filter, H400 natural gas heater, Tristar Dual Speed EE pump 2HP, Tristar EE pump 1.5HP for water features, blower 2HP, Prologic P/S 8 w/aqua pod remote, Aqua Rite T-15 Salt System, Tigershark QC robot, networked Colorlogic LEDs 2 pool 1 spa.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Cypress
    Posts
    1,679

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerfan2008 View Post
    Ours was bonded after gunite also. The rebar cage had rebar sticking well outside the shell, bent low along the ground, and that is what bond wire was connected to. I don't see how this would be more or less effective than if it were done prior to gunite. It is bonded to the same rebar it would have been bonded to prior, and that rebar and wire were tied into decking rebar.
    firehunter if you can verify this is how they're doing it, it could be very reassuring!
    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

  14. Back To Top    #14
    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Cypress
    Posts
    1,679

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by twinkiesmommy2009 View Post
    firehunter if you can verify this is how they're doing it, it could be very reassuring!
    Sorry!! Got a phone call before pressing send and then realized you saw it before I even posted.
    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    323

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by twinkiesmommy2009 View Post
    firehunter if you can verify this is how they're doing it, it could be very reassuring!
    Yes, after PB explained this to me I was good. I thought we were talking about two different things, but PB just needed to let me know how they do it. As always I will take photos along the way. So lesson learned today was bonding can be connected in more than one way.
    My pool thread. IG 31' x 20', 3.5'/4.5'/6', 8' spa, 4T moss rock WF/WW w/jumping rock, 7' x 11' sunshelf 3 bubblers, travertine coping, spray deck, Hayward equip: SwimClear 525 Cartridge Filter, H400 natural gas heater, Tristar Dual Speed EE pump 2HP, Tristar EE pump 1.5HP for water features, blower 2HP, Prologic P/S 8 w/aqua pod remote, Aqua Rite T-15 Salt System, Tigershark QC robot, networked Colorlogic LEDs 2 pool 1 spa.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,494

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by firehunter View Post
    PB says trust him and don't worry.
    Seems like he has this under control, but the "trust him" makes me nervous. To quote Ronald Reagan, "Trust but Verify".

    Feel free to ask more questions as things progress. Our experts in that area will jump in and answer.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Ok.

    I will just say that would not work with inspectors I know. I understand he is trying to eliminate a electrician visit. Most Bury the clamps and bond wire in the gunite wall.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,494

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Ok.

    I will just say that would not work with inspectors I know. I understand he is trying to eliminate a electrician visit. Most Bury the clamps and bond wire in the gunite wall.
    I wish we had a like button.....
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    77

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Ok.

    I will just say that would not work with inspectors I know. I understand he is trying to eliminate a electrician visit. Most Bury the clamps and bond wire in the gunite wall.
    Will you explain why because I'm trying to understand. If the bond wire and clamps are buried in the gunite, how is the deck tied in? Our electrician came out prior to gunite and did rough electric (along with the plumber who stubbed plumbing), so it was not a case of saving a trip. We had to have a rough electric inspection and a final electric, so the city inspector (in a city where they can be picky) was fine with the way it was done.

    I'm just curious as to what the issue would be.
    Water in, we're swimming! IG 18x29 gunite, 3.5-6.5 depth, 14,000 gallons approx, 1 skimmer, Hayward 4030 cartridge filter, Hayward Tristar VSP, 20 ft. raised bond beam with sprayers, 40 sq ft sunshelf with 2 bubblers, 7 ft round attached spa, Hayward 250k heater, quartz plaster, travertine coping, approx 800 sq feet acrylic deck

  20. Back To Top    #20
    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Cypress
    Posts
    1,679

    Re: Grounding or bonding - Not sure what they did

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    I wish we had a like button.....
    We do! It only works if you're using Tapatalk on your phone though!
    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •