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Thread: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

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    Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    I've been looking at the cost savings with the .25Lb size vs the standard 10g size and the savings are significant but I was wondering if it's a tradeoff vs possible powder shelf life issues.

    Does anyone use the 25Lb size for their tests and has had the shelf life factor offset the savings advantage?

    For example, has anyone encountered the scenario of not using all of the .25Lb supply before encountering shelf life issues?

    I use the DPD powder test for all of my FC testing so my usage rate may be larger than other members here.

    I began using the Taylor 10g DPD powder supply with the Unit-Dose Dispenser cap (9250) on Jan 4 this year. The 1st bottle lasted 12 weeks.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    I'm curious about this as well - Having just spilled my 10g container, I'm thinking this might be a good idea
    - Matrioux

    2007 18K pebble IG pool - Wincor Pool Systems automation & SWG (under development) - DE Jandy DEL60 Filter - Jandy 1HP Pump - TF-100 Test Kit

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    My only comment is that normally by the time I start running low on the R-0870 powder it has already started clumping and turning gray, so there is a certain shelf life, exposure to moisture issue. I also have to wonder how much you are using, and how often you test to run out in 12 weeks, was there a SLAM involved where you tested multiple times per day?
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    If you are testing A LOT, it might have some merit, but I mean a lot.

    Matrioux, what if you spilled the .25 container??

    For thew average user, a 10g container seems to last a season, at least, and sometimes two.

    Again, you test wa-a-a-ay above average so it may fit in your case but not for the majority.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    I mean to refill the smaller container CAREFULLY from the larger. I can be careful when I have to, I just have trouble being consistently careful

    Because I am working on a SWG controller, I am actually testing a (relatively) low chlorine level several times a day, so going through a lot of powder myself. Sometimes even testing from several spots in the pool at one time. I certainly agree that for most people, 10g is plenty.
    - Matrioux

    2007 18K pebble IG pool - Wincor Pool Systems automation & SWG (under development) - DE Jandy DEL60 Filter - Jandy 1HP Pump - TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    My testing frequency varies with the seasons but on average, I test once every 3-4 days. My peak testing period is ~May-Sept here in Dallas, testing every other day.

    I've never SLAM'ed, haven't needed to SLAM or shock since switching to TFP (Bleach & FC/CYA ratio's) methods a couple of years ago.

    I don't use the yellow OTO test anymore (for testing between DPD tests) since the DPD powder is precise and is a lot easier for me to determine the color change from pink to clear.

    The reason I haven't seen the need to test with OTO or the Taylor "dye" method, between DPD powder tests, is that I've seen good repeatability tracking my FC depletion rates. It's been amazing, seeing the DPD tests, using Bleach dosing with the Pool Math calculator, very close to expectations.

    I'm using the Unit-Dose Dispenser so I tested the Dispenser earlier today on my counter with a clean piece of paper and the Dipper Spoon. The Dispenser appears to be working ok, dispensing approx 2 heaping spoonful's or perhaps slightly less than that.

    I did a little number crunching, using Amazon (free shipping from the vendor) for the .25Lb size and Amato for the 10g size (price including shipping).

    Amazon R-0870 DPD Powder .25 lb

    $34.99 / 114g = .31 per gram


    Amato 10g size w/shipping:

    $11.98 / 10g = $1.20 per gram

    $11.98 x 11 = $131.78

    ~26-27% savings


    It looks like I could get about eleven 10g containers use with the .25Lb size.

    I'll probably stay with the 10g size for now. If I can get an average of ~3 months use per container, I'm ok with that but it's a good amount of savings with the .25Lb size. I'm just thinking that I'll waste some or a lot of the material due to shelf life issues.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    Moisture and oxidation (exposure to oxygen in air) is what kills this stuff. If you had a cheap and easy way of creating an air tight container that could be evacuated and back filled with N2 gas or even just purged with dry N2 gas, then you could probably really extend the shelf life of the powder. Unfortunately keeping cylinders of N2 gas lying around is not cheap either
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    Joyfulnoise makes a point that is the reason why we do not offer the .25 size.

    It is really hard to keep it fresh in that container once you open it up and, if you are a normal tester, you have years (and years) worth of R-0870 and Taylor only warrants it for 12 months.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    N2 purge case, reminded me of my Semiconductor industry years .

    Thanks all for the info. Decision made, 10g it is.

    I've kept the Unit-Dose Dispenser attached to the Taylor container, instead of removing it after each use. So far, it seems to seal enough to prevent powder deterioration issues. I'd guess that it's due to the shorter life cycle for me with the 10g amount.

    After years of eye-balling that R-0001/2 test dye, this powder test is the best invention since the wheel .
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    Just a note, if you are testing low FC levels, you do not need anywhere near 2 heaping scoops of powder. One level scoop should be plenty.

    There I just doubled the life of your powder
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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Just a note, if you are testing low FC levels, you do not need anywhere near 2 heaping scoops of powder. One level scoop should be plenty.

    There I just doubled the life of your powder
    Nice

    When I was testing with the TFT 10g powder and the Dipper Spoon, I was using 1 heaping spoon so I was using less powder than with the Taylor 10g powder and the Unit-Dose Dispenser which dispenses about 2 heaping spoonful's.

    I've read at the forum that the Taylor instructions call for 2 heaping Dipper Spoons and that others here say that you only need 1 heaping spoon for the FC test.

    What's the consensus on this? I prefer using the Unit-Dose Dispenser since it's a lot more convenient for me vs the Dipper Spoon method but I may want to switch back to the Dipper Spoon if I'm wasting too much powder with the Dispenser.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    The Unit-Dose dispenser is designed to be used with the larger sample size, 25mL (0.2ppm/drop titrant). It yields slightly more than two level scoops of powder. I would say that if you plan to use the 10mL sample size, then you should use one heaping scoop via the dipper. That will save you on powder use.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    What exactly is a heaping scoop?
    1200 Sq Ft 41,000 Gal. Gunite, JANDY SVRS VS pump, JANDY JXI 400,000 BTU, Polaris 280 w/ 3/4 BP, Rockwall and Grotto (w/6 jets and blower), 2 JANDY Lam Jets, 2 LED Bubblers, 5 Ledlights, AQUALINK P16 RS, 90% Quartz, SWF 185 GMP BP, SWF 125 BP, Levelor K1100 Autofill, AP Digital SWG, 2 skim and 5 returns, and mostly 3 inch piping

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    Quote Originally Posted by grottoguy View Post
    What exactly is a heaping scoop?
    Not flat to the level of the dipper but slightly rounded above the level.

    It is better to ere on the side of more than less. Too little powder and it might not properly buffer the sample solution. The DPD dye is actually just a very small component of the powder. There are ~ 7 different chemicals that make up the powder to adjust pH, buffer the solution, sequester metal interferences, etc.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    The subject of "how much powder?" comes up frequently.

    It is important to understand that you don't need to be as precise as you might think. You have one goal with the powder......turn the pool water sample pink - that's it.

    I have used 1/2 scoop and 2 scoops and gotten the same results. So, as JoyfulNoise says, err just a little on the side of "too much" but as long as your solution turns a nice pink, you are good to go.

    (A faint pink is often very little chlorine......not very little powder)
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Taylor R-0870 .25Lb vs 10g Size - Cost Savings vs Shelf Life

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    The Unit-Dose dispenser is designed to be used with the larger sample size, 25mL (0.2ppm/drop titrant). It yields slightly more than two level scoops of powder. I would say that if you plan to use the 10mL sample size, then you should use one heaping scoop via the dipper. That will save you on powder use.
    Thanks, didn't know that before now.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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