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Thread: Please check my plumbing!

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    JayG's Avatar
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    Please check my plumbing!

    equipment pad.pdfMy prior equipment pad consisted of a single speed pump, a propane heater, and a Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter. I wanted to replace the SS pump with a variable speed (got a great price on the Pentair VSXF pump). I am adding a 23kW solar array and wanted to move to an electrical heat pump rather than propane. I needed to replace the filters of my existing system and found that the replacement filters cost (~$450) nearly as much a new clean and clear system ($600) that enjoys multiple after-market filter options. Hence, I decided to replace the whole enchilada in one fell swoop. I also decided that it wouldn't be that complicated to re plumb such a system (suction, return, waste--bottom drain is not working), so I planned to do it on my own. This is my proposed layout (see below). The filter has inlet/outlet ports on the same side but "in" is above "out"; the heat pump calls for a bypass loop for anything greater than 1 hp (the VSXF is 3 hp) but I only intend to run it at sufficient speed to satisfy the heat pump (25-35 gpm). I probably don't "need" the bypass loop, but decided it couldn't hurt if there was ever a need to increase flow that exceeded the heat pump's limits. The bottom drain was deemed "blocked" by the crew that closed the pool while we were still under the former owner's contract (not sure why, but not sure it matters). I've decided to cap the bottom drain for now unless there are compelling reasons not to do so. We have a Dolphin triton plus bot that can stir things up from the bottom at least a couple times a week. I'm keeping a "pump to waste" function intact as that will come in handy when there is a large debris load in the pool (right?). Any obvious things I'm missing? Does this look logical? I hope to plumb this all together in the next week with deep socket schedule 40 pipe and fittings.

    Many thanks for any thoughts or advice!

    Jay

    Ppad1.jpg
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    cowboycasey's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    that looks like a good plan, I also used a 3 way as waste and love it, works great...
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Why a check valve on the suction line?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Thanks Casey! I'm just trying to make sure I'm not making any bone-headed mistakes.

    Jay

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Why a check valve on the suction line?
    One was there on the original pad. I thought it was to prevent loss of prime when the pump was off. The equipment pad is ~6-8 ft above the level of the skimmers. Where should a check valve be placed?
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    If the pump is that much higher than the water, then yeah the check valve is fine there. Usually there is no need for one, but then again there is not often that much of a height difference.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    This height difference is one of my demons: the former owners of the pool warned me of ever turning off the pump. They ran 24/7 and said the pump would lose prime routinely if put on a timer. Hence, my decision to go to a VS pump that could at least run 24/7 at a lower cost than their SS 1.5 hp pump.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW, this issue applies to my Stenner question (but I'm trying to keep things simple for each question).

    Thanks Jason!
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    With a good check valve, you should have no problem turning off the pump whenever you want.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    That is going to be a nice set up. I would use 3 way valves at the top and bottom of the heater bypass instead of Ts and a 2way. That way you can meter flow to the heater if needed or bypass the heater completely and still be functional.
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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    With a good check valve, you should have no problem turning off the pump whenever you want.
    Agreed! I am going to test out that idea this season. Since this is my first season "solo" I'm trying to be careful at first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    That is going to be a nice set up. I would use 3 way valves at the top and bottom of the heater bypass instead of Ts and a 2way. That way you can meter flow to the heater if needed or bypass the heater completely and still be functional.
    I was wondering if that would be helpful. Good idea. thanks.
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Here is my latest version:

    pool pad3.jpg
    I've incorporated the 3-way valves to isolate the heat pump if needed and added a union between to allow the heat pump to be removed from the system if needed. Any other suggestions? Thoughts?

    Many thanks,

    Jay
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Looking good. Be sure to use a good check valve that can be rebuilt like this Jandy Spring Check Valve 7305. Jandy 7305. Zodiac 7305. or this Hayward CPVC Check Valve 2 PSCV2S2 | Hayward PSCV2S2
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Instead of the 3 way after the heater, I would suggest a check valve so you do not have 2 valves to move. Less chance of getting the valves in a bad orientation cutting off flow.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Looking good. Be sure to use a good check valve that can be rebuilt like this Jandy Spring Check Valve 7305. Jandy 7305. Zodiac 7305. or this Hayward CPVC Check Valve 2 PSCV2S2 | Hayward PSCV2S2
    Those are the type I'm using. The one on the suction side will have the TFP flow meter!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Instead of the 3 way after the heater, I would suggest a check valve so you do not have 2 valves to move. Less chance of getting the valves in a bad orientation cutting off flow.
    Interesting idea. Wish I had thought of that before I went and bought that 3rd 3 way valve I do have an extra check valve so I could go either way.
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by fauxQ View Post
    Those are the type I'm using. The one on the suction side will have the TFP flow meter!
    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by fauxQ View Post
    Interesting idea. Wish I had thought of that before I went and bought that 3rd 3 way valve I do have an extra check valve so I could go either way.
    That is an interesting idea! I also bought two 3 way valves for my heater bypass. No spare check valve and no extra fancy TFP flow meter.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    We need a spare parts for sale/exchange section. I'm sure some one could use an extra 3-way or 2-way Jandy valve. I'll have both if I reuse the check valve I took out of the older system.
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Quote Originally Posted by fauxQ View Post
    We need a spare parts for sale/exchange section. I'm sure some one could use an extra 3-way or 2-way Jandy valve. I'll have both if I reuse the check valve I took out of the older system.
    You can post such things in the Coffee Bar
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  17. Back To Top    #17
    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    ...."sigh of relief"

    I managed to hook everything together and started the system and... No Leaks!

    I had to make a few last minute changes to accommodate a few unexpected factors, but overall I'm pleased. Pentair VSXF pump is so quiet and surprisingly efficient. It's moving the same 40 gpm (thanks trusty TFP flow gauge!) as my old Superpump II at 1/3 the wattage (430W vs 1500W). My chemistries are good:

    pH = 7.5
    FC = 21.5
    CC = 0
    CH = 275
    CYA = 70
    TA = 80

    The pool is still cloudy and the robot seems to be vacuuming up muddy silt (and a fare amount of worms), but the pool seems disinfected. I bumped my FC to 28 a week ago (with Cal-hypo) to keep SLAM levels going until I could start circulating water. I'm amazed that FC has only dropped 7.5 ppm in a week.

    Anything I'm missing?

    Thanks,

    Jay
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    Nice work! Numbers look good. Being waaayyy up there in NY, near the tundra, your water is probably still on the chilly side so your chlorine usage should still be pretty low.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  19. Back To Top    #19
    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    True, being up near the arctic circle my water is running ~61F
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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    JayG's Avatar
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    Re: Please check my plumbing!

    One new question: this morning after running the pump at 1900 rpm (40 gpm) overnight there was a substantial amount of air in the system. I bled it off from the filter top and all appears well now. Is this expected on first start up given all the lines were empty? I did bleed a ton of air on first start up, and it seemed OK when I checked last night. The skimmer socks did become caked with mud overnight so maybe there was more suction-side negative pressure than ideal. Can enough gas be pulled out of water to cause this? Or could there have been little pockets of air from start up that eventually found the top of the filter? Or should I be worried about a suction side leak?
    Jay--Metro NYC
    35K gal, in-ground, free-form, pebble finish, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, autofill. No spa, no features. Partial shade.
    Pentair C&C cartridge filter (400 sq in), Pentair VS pump, Pentair 140 btu heat pump, Triton Plus Robo-cleaner; Stenner with 55 gal bleach cistern. TFT 100 test kit.

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