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Thread: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

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    Z7What's Avatar
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    Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    A friend of mine has a in ground pool. Its roughly 27ish feet long, 11.5" wide and starts at about 3' deep and goes to 6' so above a average of 4.5' feet. Based off my calculations im estimating it to be around 11K gallons. He said the SWG worked good as far as he knows for about 6 months and then stopped working, im not sure how long it hasn't been working. The SWG he has is a Hayward Aqua Trol. So while I was over there yesterday I noticed a few things that stood out. The first thing is that the control panel says "Above Ground Pool Automation", not sure what this matters but its something that I notice. I don't know much about SWG so this morning while researching it, I found a second thing that stood out. According to this illustration in the Operation & Installation Manual I think he has his installed backwards. The wires coming out of his unit is on the inlet side of the SWG not the outlet as per the illustration. Assuming after if I flip it around and it starts working leads me to my next question. How does it work lol?



    The instructions say to add salt, you add it directly to the pool by dumping it in and then brushing it around to speed up the dissolving process. Is putting it in the skimmer a option? So with that being said if your adding salt directly to the pool what does the SWG actually do? How does it control level?

    The control panel looks similar to this



    The instructions also say to target 60-80ppm CYA with 80ppm being best (TPFC says 70-80) and a target of 2700-3400ppm salt with 3200ppm being best (TFPC doesn't show a target salt) and FC target of 1.0-3.0ppm (TPC says with CYA @ 70 FC levels should be 3-5ppm. Im assuming that since TPFC doesn't list a actual Salt level that the Salt level isn't that important, what is important is that you maintain a FC level of 3-5 and whatever the Salt is with FC @ 3-5 is ok. This is only my assumption. Please correct me if im wrong.

    Is adding bleach to the pool still needed?

    With the desired output % knob being adjustable between 1-100 how do I know what output gets me what ppm?

    As for the filter he has that's a Pentair CC100 Cartridge Filter. How often should you replace the filter? I ask because he says everything he starts the pool up after cleaning the filter it blows all kinds of white looking stuff into the pool making it a little cloudy. He mentioned it was salt, I said its probably calcium. I didn't have my TF100 with me in order to test it but will soon!!!

    Wayne
    Any tips
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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    It doesn't really matter that the cell is in backwards, with the wires on the inlet side, but it is easy to turn around.

    Dumping salt into the pool and brushing it around is the best way. Don't dump it in the skimmer. Wait a day to allow the salt to dissolve before you turn on the SWG.

    The SWG breaks down the NaCl (salt) to produce Cl (chlorine) and Na (sodium). The chlorine is what chlorinates the pool. The Na and Cl are not consumed. As the chlorine is "used up," it recombines to form NaCl, and as the NaCl is sent through the SWG, it gets broken down again, and the cycle continues. (This is a simplified explanation that is not intended to be precisely correct.)

    The level of chlorine in the pool is controlled by 1) the amount of time the pump runs, and 2) the desired % output. The way it works is that if you set the pump to run for 4 hours, for example, and you set the desired output at 75%, then the SWG generates chlorine for 0.75 x 4 = 3 hours.

    The target salt level is whatever the manufacturer of the SWG says. It differs from manufacturer to manufacturer.

    You should add bleach to get the chlorine to the target level and then adjust the SWG to maintain that level.

    You determine the % setting by trial and error. You might start with 100%, with a pump run time of 4 hours. Check the chlorine level every day at the same time. If the chlorine level stays constant, you have the right setting. If it is going up, you should decrease the % setting. If it is going down, you should increase the pump run time.

    You should not have to replace the filter unless it gets tears in the filter or is otherwise deteriorating. You should rinse off the filter whenever the pressure rises by 25%.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    If the filters are a bit dingy you can clean them by soaking them in water and muriatic acid. How To Acid Wash A Cartridge Filter - YouTube
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    Z7What's Avatar
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    Re: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    Quote Originally Posted by sargent View Post
    It doesn't really matter that the cell is in backwards, with the wires on the inlet side, but it is easy to turn around.
    Well if the cell is reading levels BEFORE it actually goes into the cell how can it work correctly. That is with my assumption that the wire goes to a "sensor" inside of the cell.

    Quote Originally Posted by sargent View Post
    Dumping salt into the pool and brushing it around is the best way. Don't dump it in the skimmer. Wait a day to allow the salt to dissolve before you turn on the SWG.

    The SWG breaks down the NaCl (salt) to produce Cl (chlorine) and Na (sodium). The chlorine is what chlorinates the pool. The Na and Cl are not consumed. As the chlorine is "used up," it recombines to form NaCl, and as the NaCl is sent through the SWG, it gets broken down again, and the cycle continues. (This is a simplified explanation that is not intended to be precisely correct.)

    The level of chlorine in the pool is controlled by 1) the amount of time the pump runs, and 2) the desired % output. The way it works is that if you set the pump to run for 4 hours, for example, and you set the desired output at 75%, then the SWG generates chlorine for 0.75 x 4 = 3 hours.

    The target salt level is whatever the manufacturer of the SWG says. It differs from manufacturer to manufacturer.

    You should add bleach to get the chlorine to the target level and then adjust the SWG to maintain that level.

    You determine the % setting by trial and error. You might start with 100%, with a pump run time of 4 hours. Check the chlorine level every day at the same time. If the chlorine level stays constant, you have the right setting. If it is going up, you should decrease the % setting. If it is going down, you should increase the pump run time.
    Thanks, now I understand how it works. But now that you brought up that the SWG would be working whenever water is going through it you control leaves with output and length of time pump is running makes me have to ask. The example of 3hours above was just that an example correct? I would think the pump would need to run 8-12hrs a day just like I do my pump, I just need to adjust output based off length of time pump runs. Also, so I put enough bleach in the pool to get the FC to 3-5 and then put enough salt to maintain 3200ppm? Does that mean 3200ppm will hold FC between 3-5 or will bleach still be needed daily to maintain FC levels. I guess basically what im asking is salt ppm directly related to FC?

    Quote Originally Posted by sargent View Post
    You should not have to replace the filter unless it gets tears in the filter or is otherwise deteriorating. You should rinse off the filter whenever the pressure rises by 25%.
    Can my TF-100 test for amount of salt? If not, how can I test it?

    Quote Originally Posted by atttech-2 View Post
    If the filters are a bit dingy you can clean them by soaking them in water and muriatic acid. How To Acid Wash A Cartridge Filter - YouTube
    Thanks


    Wayne
    24'X54" Round 15,000 Gallon Pool
    Pentair SD-60 Sand Filter With 1.5HP Pump & Center Floor Drain
    Lil' Shark Vacuum With Leaf Canister
    New TFPC User And Couldn't Be Happier
    Pool School + Test Kit + Pool Math = A Perfect Trouble Free Pool

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    No, you have to order a Salt test kit, or get some salt strips if that isn't an option. Since its a single measure, the strips for salt aren't too bad but there are occasionally bad batches, or old ones that give you wonky readings. I believe it's the K1766 kit you want. TFtestkits has it though, so it's easy to find.
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    Re: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    You can also read the salinity from the SWG's panel. You can press the diagnostic button to see all the readings that the SWG is reading.

    Some readings can be off due to the cell being bad or too much calcium has formed on the cell plates. You should remove the cell and inspect it for white scale. It could very well be full of it since you have seen white coming out of the returns.
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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: Helping A Friend With His In Ground Pool....Sorry LONG

    Quote Originally Posted by Z7What View Post
    Well if the cell is reading levels BEFORE it actually goes into the cell how can it work correctly.
    The cell reads the salt level, and temperature. Those do not change appreciably from going through the cell. It will not hurt it to have the cell in backwards, but since it is easy to turn it around, go ahead and do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z7What View Post
    The example of 3hours above was just that an example correct? I would think the pump would need to run 8-12hrs a day just like I do my pump, I just need to adjust output based off length of time pump runs.
    Yes it was just an example. You need to run your pump long enough to do an adequate job of skimming (and vacuuming). That is different for different pools. Right now I can get along with three hours of pump time and the SWG set to 60%. When the cottonwood trees start to drop their cotton, I will be increasing the pump time - to two periods of three hours each - and decreasing the SWG%. In the peak of summer I usually have the pump running about four hours a day, with the SWG set to about 70%. Usually 8-12 hours of pump time is more than is necessary for skimming, but sometimes you need that long of a time (or longer) for chlorine production if your SWG is not sized higher than your pool volume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z7What View Post
    Also, so I put enough bleach in the pool to get the FC to 3-5 and then put enough salt to maintain 3200ppm? Does that mean 3200ppm will hold FC between 3-5 or will bleach still be needed daily to maintain FC levels. I guess basically what im asking is salt ppm directly related to FC?
    Yes, you put bleach in to get to 3-5 ppm FC. And you put enough salt to be within the range needed by the SWG. As long as the ppm of salt is within the needed range of the SWG, it has little affect on the FC, but if it is too high or too low, the SWG will not generate chlorine. The FC is related to how long the SWG runs. How long the SWG runs is the pump time multiplied by the SWG %.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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