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Thread: How much acid do you have to add?

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    How much acid do you have to add?

    Hey everyone, new to the SWG world... I am about a week in so far. I have been having to add acid to keep my PH down. at this rate it looks like it is going to take about 1 gallon a month... is that typical?

    Ill update my signature.... I am now running an IC40 and have borates in my water.
    7-10 year old In ground 20,000 gal, Aquabright ecofinish W/ Spa, waterfall and infinity jet, 60 sq foot DE filter, Single speed pump, Racer cleaner

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    ... I'm a gallon a week.

    Where do you keep your pH and TA?
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    About a quart a week for 16K gallons and no SWG. That's more than you use given relative sizes.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by Austintatious View Post
    Hey everyone, new to the SWG world... I am about a week in so far. I have been having to add acid to keep my PH down. at this rate it looks like it is going to take about 1 gallon a month... is that typical?

    Ill update my signature.... I am now running an IC40 and have borates in my water.
    That doesn't sound unreasonable for a plaster pool. Did you put the borates in? How stable has your pH and TA been?

    sidenote: How have you been testing your FC without the FAS-DPD test? Your test listed doesn't test higher than 5, right? You can get just the missing FAS-DPD test at TFTestskits.net TFTestkits.net
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Good catch, YS. Tell us your pH and TA as Brian requested and maybe there are some tweaks you can do to reduce the MA demand/pH rise.

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Just over a quart per week. I add 1 litre. The pool is 12k gallon plaster, SWC and 5 months old.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    OK, My PH last night was 7.6 ( I have been targeting 7.4) and my TA is 60.

    I put the borates in... I have only been on the SWG a little over a week. So I will keep monitoring the levels. I have the cell on 100% witht the pump running 9 hours a night... My Chlorine levels have been around 5 in the AM and 3 in the PM.

    One thing that may be contributing is the spillway on the spa. AFAICT the automatic valves on the EASYTOUCH always go 180 degrees when activated. I really need one of them to turn 90 degrees so that the spillway in the spa is not active... this is definitely adding more aeration which as I understand will raise PH.
    7-10 year old In ground 20,000 gal, Aquabright ecofinish W/ Spa, waterfall and infinity jet, 60 sq foot DE filter, Single speed pump, Racer cleaner

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    You probably already know this but the valves are fairly easy to adjust you just have to take them apart to adjust the cams. Plenty of YouTube videos on how to. That being said in your situation it might be a good idea to add another manual valve after the powered valve so you can manually control the volume without having to adjust the cams each time you want a different effect.

    Oh and for reference I am at around 50 oz per week in a fairly new pool
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Is there a reason you are targeting PH of 7.4? Ideal PH is generally 7.6 to 7.8. Your PH might be stable in that range.
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    You should be using almost no acid. SWGs should be ph neutral.

    Keep the ph at 7.8, the CYA at 60 to 70 and don't raise the TA.

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    You should be using almost no acid. SWGs should be ph neutral.

    Keep the ph at 7.8, the CYA at 60 to 70 and don't raise the TA.
    It seems this is more often the case with vinyl pools, at least that's when I've seen it mentioned the most.

    Regardless of my TA (as low as 50) with a pH of 7.8, the pH is always rising.

    I know the theory is due to the hydrogen gas production within the cell creating aeration and ultimately outgassing but that doesn't explain why some pools are effected and others aren't.

    Make up water probably has a little to do with pH and TA rise (especially those with very high TA fill water) but I know that it alone cannot account for all of it.
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    For a concrete pool with a 0.0 CSI, the ph should eventually level out. Maybe go 7.9 ph and 40 TA.

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by Austintatious View Post

    I put the borates in... I have only been on the SWG a little over a week. So I will keep monitoring the levels. I have the cell on 100% witht the pump running 9 hours a night... My Chlorine levels have been around 5 in the AM and 3 in the PM.

    .
    Do you see something odd here?- that you're running your SWG that long at 100% and your FC is only 5??

    As I mentioned a few posts ago, your test results don't go any higher, right? SO you really don't know how high your FC is and you're running the SWG much more than necessary. Which may be contributing to your labile pH.
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    For a concrete pool with a 0.0 CSI, the ph should eventually level out. Maybe go 7.9 ph and 40 TA.
    I know that's pretty close to equilibrium and why that would work but it isn't possible in my pool. I'd use too much acid to keep the TA down and the pH would rise too slowly to balance out the CSI. By the time the pH made it to 7.8 the TA would be 60-70. I've tried on several occasions.
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    I'm most interested in this thread because I'm working on lowering my acid consumption, but FWIW regarding the sidenote, running an IC40 for 9 hours at 100% in a 25,000 gal pool provides 2.5 ppm per day, which seems reasonable. Agree it would be much better to have FAS-DPD testing to know where you're at.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    I know that's pretty close to equilibrium and why that would work but it isn't possible in my pool. I'd use too much acid to keep the TA down and the pH would rise too slowly to balance out the CSI. By the time the pH made it to 7.8 the TA would be 60-70. I've tried on several occasions.
    Brian,

    Did you ever borate your water?
    Matt
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Yep... No noticeable change.

    I'm going to try 80 ppm this summer and see what that does
    -Brian-
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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    I am adding a full container (7 lbs) of dry acid every week or two. Working on lowering my TA to get in balance. TA started at 100, now 70. pH is much more stable now, but still rises. May have to go to 60 TA next.
    30,000 gal free-form IG w/ spa, PebbleSheen Blue Surf, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair 3 HP Intelliflo, extra pump that is way over-sized for weeping moss rocks, Dolphin Oasis Z5, municipal water, all built Jan-Feb 2016. TF-100, SpeedStir, Liquidator 3/8", borates. My build thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-in-Cypress-TX

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    Yep... No noticeable change.

    I'm going to try 80 ppm this summer and see what that does
    What's the pH/TA of your fill water?
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: How much acid do you have to add?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTX View Post
    I am adding a full container (7 lbs) of dry acid every week or two. Working on lowering my TA to get in balance. TA started at 100, now 70. pH is much more stable now, but still rises. May have to go to 60 TA next.
    Is there a reason you are using dry acid? Is muriatic acid not available?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    What's the pH/TA of your fill water?
    8.0/90

    I don't really mind the acid usage. I only posted to show the OP that his was far from excessive.

    My bigger issue is the buildup of chloride from so much acid mainly because my acid pump stops dosing when the salinity reaches 4200ppm
    -Brian-
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