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Thread: Diluting acid for Stenner

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    Diluting acid for Stenner

    I will be switching my chlorine Stenner setup to muriatic acid (installing SWG). I understand diluting the acid is recommended. I'm planning on using a 4:1 dilution.

    When adding water and acid to the storage container while there is still some diluted acid in it, is it better to:
    1-add water first (but isn't adding water to acid not good) then the acid?
    2-add the acid first, then the water (again, adding water to acid- no bueno)?
    3-dilute the acid in a different container, then try to pour that into the first container (can't see how to do that without getting acid all over my pool equipment)?

    I'm guessing the first option would be OK if the diluted acid is weak enough, but want to make sure before I make a bad mistake.
    18,000 gallon IG gunite freeform pool
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    when starting fresh always add Acid to water never the other way around. In extreme circumstances it can boil over if you add water to acid.

    When you do your refill wait till you have 1 gallon or less and add the water first, the concentration of acid is low at that point, if you pour slowly, carefully and stand up wind and you should be fine. Then top off with the acid.

    Or you can do what I do and don't dilute
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Thanks for the quick reply. Wouldn't the concentration of acid be the same regardless of how much is left in the container? I'm assuming it all mixes together pretty well.

    Maybe someone who's done this can chime in and let me know what their experiences are?
    18,000 gallon IG gunite freeform pool
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    I have not heard that dilution is necessary. Where did you see that...Stenner?
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    I've seen it in several TFP threads. Here's one:
    Stenner pump for acid -- dilute acid?
    18,000 gallon IG gunite freeform pool
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    [QUOTE=tigerucla;995648]Wouldn't the concentration of acid be the same regardless of how much is left in the container? I'm assuming it all mixes together pretty well.

    QUOTE] If you add water to acid you create a small pocket of high concentration of acid that when in contact with the water creates an exothermic reaction that in theory could boil and throw acid out of the container. So when you start out fresh if you added the water to acid the "incorrect way" the pocket of concentration acid is at most 31% actually a bit less because it starts to dilute very fast. After you have your 4:1 in there and add more water you are starting with about 8% in the Stenner container. That is what I meant about the concentration being less when you refill 8% vs the original 31% of a fresh fill.

    Truth be told we are talking about best practices more than necessity. The MA we use is already is mostly water, the heat released is low compared to stronger acids like sulfuric and there are literally dozens of videos of people trying to get commercial grad 90% and higher sulfuric to boil over with little success.

    Bottom line pour slow pay attention to what is going on and you will be good either way.

    Most people that dilute don't do it because it is necessary, they do it because they don't like the fumes that the 31% tends to give off or they just feel safer having a milder solution in there back yard around their kids.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Thanks again atttech-2. It sounds like the bottom line is that technically, it's safer to add acid to water, but with a low concentration of a relatively weak acid it probably won't be a problem, especially if you pour slowly.

    I'm still not clear on why you recommend waiting until there's a gallon or less of diluted MA before adding more. Is it potentially more dangerous to pour water into a larger volume of diluted acid than pouring it into a smaller volume of diluted acid?
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Truth be told I was thinking of my setup I have a 5 gallon bucket. If you have a 15 Gallon Stenner container or bigger it will not matter.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    I want to point out that according to Stenner you really don't need to dilute. The pump can take up to 32% concentrations of acid. I don't know where consumers can purchase that strengh. 29% is the strongest I can get. So if you just buy 15% concentration. That is sold in many locations and Most Sunbelt Home Depot stores.

    Dilution should not be an issue.
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Perhaps I am missing something, but whether one goes the dilution or the undiluted route, you still are going to be pouring the acid out of the bottle at its full "native" strength at some point. Acid exposure time is not diminished.

    While I take handling of acid very seriously, diluting seems to involve extra interaction with the acid (extra handling via the dilution routine). Though I do understand a reluctance to being exposed to acid fumes of a far more potent strength when held undiluted in the holding tank, I can't imagine when that exposure would occur. I realize acid leakage is always a possibility...but unless the dilution ratio is fairly high, leakage at all strengths poses similar hazards.

    One might reasonably conclude that there is an increased margin of safety in storing undiluted acid in the tank: in reducing the refill intervals, you reduce the number of times interacting with this caustic fluid.
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. I guess it's time to just $#!+ or get off the pot. I've decided to dilute 4:1 in my 15 gallon container as I see fit, for the purpose of keeping fumes down and making it easier to adjust pH using a timer (my Stenner is not variable speed).

    I'll have my wife let you know if I blow myself up.

    Enjoy your pools!
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    Intelliflo VS pump; Hayward SwimClear-C4030 425 sq ft filter; 4x suction PoolCleaner

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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerucla View Post
    I'll have my wife let you know if I blow myself up.

    Enjoy your pools!
    Or just convince your wife to add the acid and water.....

    Just kidding, of course
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    Re: Diluting acid for Stenner

    Actually, that's what kids are for, right?

    18,000 gallon IG gunite freeform pool
    Intelliflo VS pump; Hayward SwimClear-C4030 425 sq ft filter; 4x suction PoolCleaner

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