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Thread: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

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    Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    So I just started looking into purchasing a new pump to save on electricity costs. So i'm really in the beginning stages. But here is the research I've done so far. And please correct me if something is inaccurate.

    This is the pump we currently have:
    A.O. Smith Round Flange 1 1/2 HP Full Rate Motor. (K48M2N110C1)
    From what i'm seeing this pump runs at 1.5 horse power. Which converts to 1118 Watts @ 5-6 hours a day.
    Paying .17 per kWh. Comes out to roughly $1 per day.

    When I spoke to a employee at Leslie's Pool Supply. He claimed this pump was costing me between 40 to 50 cents per hour. So clearly he was full hot air. Correct?

    After reading a number of other posts that had similar questions. our pool is 23,000 gallons (Pool & Spa). We NEVER use this pool. We haven't used the spa in about 15 years, nor do I personally know if the spa even works. We never heat the pool either. But that doesn't mean in the future we won't be using any of these functions later on.

    The Rep also pushed on getting a Variable Speed Pump (Intelliflo, and Ecostar). Claiming that these pumps only cost around 3 to 8 cents per hour. They also just happened to be the most expensive VS pumps that they sell.

    So in terms of efficiency, are newer pump really more efficient than older pumps? Or is the because variable speed allows you to pump at a wide variety of speeds, that allows a person to set the horse power to a lower speed in order to draw less power?

    Also after reading a lot of mixed reviews. I've really hesitant on going through with the whole thing.

    Edit: In the city of Burbank. They are currently offering a $400 rebate on variable speed replacement pool pumps only.
    23,000 Gallons Plaster Pool & Spa (1989). Hayward Super II 1.5 HP Pool Pump (Single Speed). Cartridge filter. Kit Tester: Taylor K-2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    First, your link is to a motor, not a pump. The pump has a huge part in the amount of water you are moving. That same motor could be used on different pumps and cost a good bit different in the amount of electricity they use.

    You also can not really convert the HP to watts that way.

    They are slightly more efficient in design, but the bigger factor is that you can run at lower speeds and thus use less power.

    For a pool and spa that is never used, I would likely suggest just putting a 2 speed motor on your existing pump and running it on low speed.

    The easiest way to save money on power is to not run the pump very long. How long are you running? See: Determine Pump Run Time
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    If it needs to be a variable speed pump for the rebate here are a couple of options.
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump 011018 | Pentair 011018
    Pentair SuperFlo VS Pump 342001 | Pentair 342001

    I run my Intelliflo at 1100 rpm for skimming, filtering and making chlorine. It uses 150 watts at 1100 rpm. 6 hours at .17/kWh would cost 15.3c per day.
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    First, your link is to a motor, not a pump. The pump has a huge part in the amount of water you are moving. That same motor could be used on different pumps and cost a good bit different in the amount of electricity they use.

    You also can not really convert the HP to watts that way.

    They are slightly more efficient in design, but the bigger factor is that you can run at lower speeds and thus use less power.

    For a pool and spa that is never used, I would likely suggest just putting a 2 speed motor on your existing pump and running it on low speed.

    The easiest way to save money on power is to not run the pump very long. How long are you running? See: Determine Pump Run Time
    ok! I did not know it was two seperate pieces. So there is a motor and the pump. The pump is the Hayward Pool Products: SP3010x15AZ

    6S1pUzi.jpg

    If you can't convert HP to watts that way. How do you do the conversion then? I'm confused.

    I'm more interested in the variable, since there is a city rebate on it for $400.

    Like i said already 5 hours a day.


    What exactly determines how much power gets drawn? is it the motor or pump or both? If you're not replacing the motor...
    23,000 Gallons Plaster Pool & Spa (1989). Hayward Super II 1.5 HP Pool Pump (Single Speed). Cartridge filter. Kit Tester: Taylor K-2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    I would have a better idea of the pump by seeing the whole pump ... going to have to look up that part number to know what it is

    OK, so that is a Super II ... that is a big pump that is probably sized to have adequate jet action in the spa. If you do not want to lose the ability to have good jet action, I would replace the motor with a 2 speed version as your cheapest option.

    If you want to keep the possibility for high flow rates for the spa with a VS pump, then you will need one of the larger ones with the Intellifo

    If you do not care about the spa and want a VS pump, then you could so with a smaller one like the Superflo VS.

    Even with the rebate, I think the 2-speed motor might have a lower ROI. Might take many years for the VS to save more power over the cheaper motor.
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Ok, thank you for making suggestions on what I should buy,
    but i'm really more interested in the numbers to be honest to make an informed decision.
    Because replacing these 2 working parts or only replacing one is all going to depend on The Cost vs Benefit, when it comes to how much electricity is being drawn.

    Now that I've listed the motor and pump, how can I figure out how much power is being drawn roughly per hour?
    Is there a way to calculate it? if so how, please show me. Even if it's a ball park estimate.

    That being said. When people are attempting to save money replacing these 2 units, do they replace the motor? or do they replace the pump. or both? And why?
    23,000 Gallons Plaster Pool & Spa (1989). Hayward Super II 1.5 HP Pool Pump (Single Speed). Cartridge filter. Kit Tester: Taylor K-2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    To estimate the power you need to know the head loss and that is not trivial to determine as it involves your entire pool system. mas985 has some spreadsheets that might help you with these estimates. He also has a post called "Have you lost your head" or something like that.

    Some general numbers: For a 2-speed motor, on low (1825 rpm) it will move 1/2 the water as high speed (3650 rpm), but will use 1/4 the amount of power. The VS lets you run down to around 1000 rpm, but just going down to 1825 has saved 75% of the power cost, so going even lower on the rpm will not have as large of additional savings.

    What people do depends on the situation.
    If they have cheap power, then a VS pump is not likely worth the extra cost to replace a working pump/motor.
    If you have expensive power, then a VS pump likely has a quick ROI.
    In the middle (I would say you are on the edge), the ROI is going to take longer.
    If you get rebates, then that just helps the ROI.

    Spit balling here ... Assuming you do not have to have professional installation to get your rebate, a large VS pump would be about $900, minus the $400 rebate makes it $500 out of pocket. A 2-speed motor might be around $300 (could be less not sure).

    The ROI is probably 1-2 years on the power savings for the 2-speed, but the trade is how long would it take the VS to make up that extra $200?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    If you go onto the Pentair site and the Hayward site they have calculators that will help you see, based on usage and utility rates, how much the various pumps cost to run... And also how much you can save compared to another pump (your own, or another that you are considering.)

    Keep in mind that to get the rebate, you have to have the pump installed by an approved/certified installer. I don't think any of the power co. rebates allow for DIY installation... pro install will add at least a few hundred dollars to the price. For us, it would've cost more for the install than it did for the pump because we would have needed to make our equipment pad/area comply with the same codes that are in place for in-ground pools... Not really realistic for an Intex ABG pool.

    That said, we decided to "go big, or go home" and went for the Pentair Intelliflo 1.5 hp VS... it cost as much as the pool but in the 4-5 mos we used it last season, we saved almost than half the cost of the pump in electric costs... The Intex 1 hp single-speed pump that came with the pool was inadequate, and wouldn't even run a simple vacuum. And cost more than $60 a month to run. Hubby always dreaded the beginning of summer, but not because the AC would raise our electric bill (we have solar, so in the summer, even running AC, we break even usually) but because the pool would cost so much to run. Last summer, after installing the new Intelliflo pump he said, that for the first time since we got the pool, our electric bill didn't skyrocket in May when we opened the pool.

    And it is so much more powerful, even on low speeds, that our pool has never been cleaner, because vacuuming isn't a dreaded exercise in futility, like it used to be.... Our "pool slave", ahem, son is going away to school soon and doesn't want to drive 3 hours each way just to vacuum the pool, even when I promised I'd do his laundry while he was here... whatever... so pretty soon we'll be starting the search for an automatic pool cleaner... With the old pump, we couldn't even have dreamed of the possibility.


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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Those calculators are not at all realistic and are biased.

    If the Intex pump was costing you that much, very likely you were running it easy more than you really needed to.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by AprilsZoo View Post
    Keep in mind that to get the rebate, you have to have the pump installed by an approved/certified installer. I don't think any of the power co. rebates allow for DIY installation... pro install will add at least a few hundred dollars to the price. For us, it would've cost more for the install than it did for the pump because we would have needed to make our equipment pad/area comply with the same codes that are in place for in-ground pools... Not really realistic for an Intex ABG pool.
    Unfortunately, you're wrong in my case, no where on the rebate does it state, I need to hire a professional to get my rebate. The only thing it states is I need to order the pump with in my city limits.

    On the other hand, according to the reviews I've read. Pentair requires you to install their pumps using a qualified installer, otherwise their warranty lasts only 60 days. With a professional, 1, 2, or 3 years depending on the product you purchase.

    Which personally seems like a complete and utter scam. "Pentair offers a three- (3) year extended warranty on the following products when they are installed by a qualified installer and registered within sixty (60) days from the date of installation:" Also, what pentair considers a qualified installer is debatable according to some people's reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Those calculators are not at all realistic and are biased.
    According to this document, which gave me exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

    http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54242.pdf

    It goes through the entire process, from why you should convert to a VS pump, why you shouldn't use a single or 2 speed pump. How to calculate all the stats for your pool. How to calculate how much power a single speed pump and VS pump typically draws. To The installation processes, which I didn't read. The crazy thing is the examples they use as the single speed pump, was EXACTLY THE SAME PUMP I Had. So it was perfect in my situation to get an understanding of exactly how much power my pump was using and how much you would save.

    And now I understand that the speed of which the pump runs at determines how much power the unit draws. Top of page 14

    Qes4KFF.png

    I also spoke to a rep from my city and they told me that 5 years ago they used to offer their rebates for the 2 speed pumps only. And after they began to get data from the homes that applied for those rebates, none of them were really saving any money. They decided to change their rebate policy after more research and change it to VS pumps. And since they were more expensive, to offer a much higher rebate, hence the $400.
    23,000 Gallons Plaster Pool & Spa (1989). Hayward Super II 1.5 HP Pool Pump (Single Speed). Cartridge filter. Kit Tester: Taylor K-2006.

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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Look at the Circupool pumps which are actually Speck pumps from Germany. They allow for DYI installation without reducing the warranty. I will be installing mine next week once this band of storms pass through.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by WASP View Post
    Look at the Circupool pumps which are actually Speck pumps from Germany. They allow for DYI installation without reducing the warranty. I will be installing mine next week once this band of storms pass through.
    Seems like these are all for salt water pools. Or does it matter?
    23,000 Gallons Plaster Pool & Spa (1989). Hayward Super II 1.5 HP Pool Pump (Single Speed). Cartridge filter. Kit Tester: Taylor K-2006.

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    Re: Looking to replace Pool Pump, Need Advice.

    Doesn't matter.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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