lost in France

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M

morning dipper

0
Apr 13, 2016
40
France
Hello all. Nice forum.

Thought I would join you as I’ve problems and it would seem there is a pretty good chance of getting things resolved here.

From browsing around I have got the message that reliable home test numbers are imperative. Would love to oblige…BUT I am in France and apart from dip testers and good old OTO not much else is available!

The readings I’ve got below come from my pool shop (sorry) – from their Bayrol centifugal test machine :cool:. Even if acceptable it is not something I can do often. If we can use that for starters I’d be happy otherwise I’ve really not much else to go on!

Readings are in mg/l.
TAC 45
pH 7.4
FC 7.36
CC 0.89
TH 206
Cu 0
Fe 0.4
CYA 75

(Pool 40m3 (+/- 10k us gall.) IG concrete tiled with SWG, sand type filter filled with crushed glass media)

Pool has been cloudy and has not responded to gentle cl addition. Slamming as I write with 70% cl granules with no stabilizer at 31 FC based on CYA of 75. (Added 1.3 kgs as per pool math). Water looking good (1st overnight). (SWG is functional but off, water limit too cold presently 16°C (60F) so everything is being done manually.)

With a dip FC and an OTO tester, kitchen jugs and measures to dilute pool water any help to steer this thing ….or am I on my own? :D

TAC at 45….any advice?

Regarding CYA. During the summer the pool runs with SWG. The SWG is 2.5 times oversize – long story. Pool is 40m3 SWG designed for 100m3. Can I not run at lower CYA levels given there is a good amount of Cl produced to offset effect of sunshine? For and againsts?

Also I have a tanning shelf (hollow box shape built in concrete, filled with light expanded clay beads fwiw) added non structurally to concrete shell. To avoid problems of water seepage, pressure difference, sealing etc the inside of the box is open to the pool via 2 small (1”) holes top and bottom. Water can enter and air can escape at leisure. The physics of this box arrangement are pretty straightforward, and seem to work. What is less clear to me is what is going on inside from the POV of water chemistry – is there a risk of some nasty contaminants creeping out into pool, as the stagnant water matures? Can I just block off the holes and leave it all for my kids to uncover in years to come ?

Any comments much appreciated.
 
Hello and welcome to TFP.. :wave: Good to hear you have been studying TFP processes and have a good understanding of what is required. At the same time, you are obviously limited with resources that would otherwise be readily available in the States (i.e. test kit). Just to be clear though on the numbers you posted above, I'm interpreting them as follows:
TAC actually TA (Alkalinity)? If so, 45 it might be okay for now. Not much lower though.
pH - 7.4 (good)
FC -7 (Free Chlorine) - Based on your CYA of 75 (round-up to 80) it would be fine on a normal, daily basis. Actually might be slightly high when compared to our Chlorine/CYA Chart (link in my sig below). But if your water is cloudy, that indicates you may have an algae bloom starting, in which case you will need to perform a "SLAM" (link also below) to remove the algae. That requires a much higher FC level (31). That is something that would be extremely difficult for your to try and measure with any dilution method.
CC (Combined Chlorine) The fact that this is over our .5 threshold confirms that your pool is struggling with excess organics and needs a "SLAM".
TH 206 - I'm guessing this is your hardness (CH). A little low for a plaster pool, but easily raised later.
CYA - 75 rounded-up to 80 is good for a SWG pool.

Do you have access to liquid chlorine? That would be ideal to use during the SLAM. Also, is there any way you can order a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C on-line and have it shipped? If not, perhaps just the FAS-DPD portion so that you can accurately measure the high FC levels required to perform the SLAM. MUCH better than any OTO tester. Oh, and as for the tanning shelf ... yes, I would be concerned about that. Algae can and will find its way into any hidden location. We see it inside ladder steps all the time.

These are some items to help give you something to think about. Please let us know if you have any more questions and we'll try to help you from abroad. :) Great to have you with us.
 
Morning Dipper - I have a concern about something you wrote:
"Pool has been cloudy and has not responded to gentle cl addition. Slamming as I write with 70% cl granules with no stabilizer at 31 FC based on CYA of 75. (Added 1.3 kgs as per pool math)."

What type of cl granules did you add?
 
Wow! impressive response time.......

@pabeader...the granules are called calcium hypochlorite at 70%. Contains no stabilizer. I've just thrown in the required amount by hand, dry, though on reading the tub it says mix with water first!?

I plan on doing 48hrs at best guestimate slam level. Already at 24hrs it looks sparkling.:)

@Texas Splash - thanks for your detailed reply. TAC is certainly alkalinity, and it would include carbonates and bicarbonates. Same as TA? Plan on raising TAC once slam is over (or should that have happened first?)

I am looking at importing some kind of good test equipment. Have found in UK a Lamotte kit ref 2056 Colorq Pro which would appear OK, but your Taylor range is nowhere to be found.

Kit or no kit, the info on this forum will allow me to aim for correct levels, whereas before I was well wide. Achieving them might be a challange.

Any suggestions for holes in the tanning shelf - leave or block?





TH is hardness at 206 I'm just over local recommendation of 150/200.
 
We're glad to assist wherever we can. Regarding the tanning shelf, I would suspect that as long as water is allowed to enter that area (shaded and without water circulation) it will be a haven for algae. You might be forced to close it off if possible. Since you are using Cal-Hypo to chlorinate, just remember it will increase your hardness (CH) substantially over time. At some point, if it gets too high, it could lead to scaling, so just be aware. You could raise TA slightly with regular baking soda if you have that available. This page Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals contains a listing of everything we advocate here at TFP, along with prescribed methods to add to the water. Of course you'll find a few links in our signatures valuable as well. If you can't get the entire kit, perhaps you can order just the FAS-DPD portion here at TFTestkits.net which will allow you to test the FC and CC as prescribed in the SLAM link below. I hope some of this helps.
 
As Texas has pointed out, your granular Cl is adding Calcium. All non-liquid Cl adds something. In your case it isn't CYA it's Calcium. Like Texas said, need to keep an eye on that. I would strongly suggest you switch to plain liquid bleach or liquid Chlorine. That way you aren't adding stuff you are going to have to drain water from your pool to remove.
 
@pooldv pH has always been pretty steady so I guess there is no need to raise TA.

After 48 hrs of slam I reckoned my TC dropped overnight. (Evidence would be my dipstick for TC reading dropping - colour less purple!!!! The stick only reads to 10 max so I dilute my sample so that 30 (target TC) reads 10. It read 10 ish at beditme and less at breakfast, so I figured I had an overnight drop. Does FC need direct sun to burn or simply daylight?

Slamming again today.

Water is crystal - so even if my readings are bobbins is 3 days of slamming enough?

As for liquid cl or bleach is that like household stuff?

Are the stabilized cl bricks one can buy full of calcium too?
 
Yes, the household bleach is fine as long as it is just regular (none of the scented or splashless stuff). On the bottle it will hopefully say "sodium hypochlorite" on the ingredients. The chlorine "tablets or pucks" not only have chlorine, but also have stabilizer which is responsible for raising your CYA too high. So that's why we caution people about using those too much. Here at TFP, we know a SLAM can take several days, so patience comes into play. Duration depends on how bad the pool was and where algae can be hiding (hence the tanning shelf). Diagnosis will be tough for you since you don't have the proper way to test FC and CC levels yet, but your effort is commendable.
 

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I don't have personal experience with the LaMotte kits. I like the links Casey provided above in post #6. But you are correct - simply enter the bleach percentage in that field on the calculator. The higher % you can get, the less you will need to apply each time. But the bleach you have available in your area may be limited, so you do the best you can. :)
 
morning dipper said:
Took a look at TFP recommended products.

Pool shop reducer is sulphuric acid (400g/kg)!

Notice it doesn't appear on your list!

What's best or least inconvenient to lower pH?
Click to expand...

In the US we use muriatic acid, aka hydrochloric acid, most commonly. Sulfuric acid is also ok to use, but MA/HA is better if you can find it and a little safer and it doesn't add sulfates to your pool.
 
Since no one directly responded to this ... we generally do not recommend the use of digital testers like the Color Q. They have limitations, require calibration, and you never know if they are just spitting out a random number. One limitation is that the FC only goes up to 10ppm.
 

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