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Thread: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

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    High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Some how we have overshot our CYA level for starting out for this years opening and I'm thinking that it may be the reason that I can't get my water clear after a week of SLAMing. Last year I ran it about 50. Currently it's between 60-70, granted I live in the south and will experience a lot of sun during the swimming season I'm concerned that I may have to do a partial drain and refill since I can't seem to get my water to clear up. I've been running my pump for a week now, back washing as needed. During the SLAM process I bring my FC level up to 10 ppm before sunrise, brush and repeat the process each evening around 7 pm since I'm at work 12 hrs a day. When I check of an evening my FC is about 7.5-8.0, however I still can't see the bottom of my pool after a week now. Here are my numbers and hopefully a pic as of today:

    FC 10
    CC 1
    PH 7.2
    TA 70

    OLT- still at about 1.5 per night.

    My next thought is to deep clean my sand filter if the higher than normal CYA isn't the culprit of my cloudy water. Some one suggested that I try using a water clarifier but I figured I had better ask first.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    With a 1.5ppm loss of FC overnight something is living in the water. While deep cleaning the sand filter may help it work better, you can not solve an algae problem with a filter.

    With the high CYA you have you need to bring the FC up to 28 and hold it there to correctly follow the SLAM Process
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    David, I too run a higher CYA level (60-70) and my daily FC is around 7-8. If I had to SLAM, I would have to go up to an FC of 28. It looks like you're too low right now. SO to properly perform your SLAM, raise the FC to 28 and continue to do all the things on the SLAM page and you should start to see better progress.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Thanks to you both for the speedy reply and advice. I will postpone the deep cleaning until I have cleared up the cloudy water issue and up my FC.
    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    David, Remember that THE most important part of the SLAM is Maintain as in maintain your FC at or just a little above the SLAM level. Every time it goes below whatever is growing is doing so Is there anyone you can have come at lunch time to just pour in some bleach?

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Kim,

    Yes I could get my neighbor to put some in. Any recommendation as to how much I should have him add?

    I'm off this upcoming Tuesday so I should be able to get an idea as to how much I may be loosing between 6 am (the time I leave each day) and say 1:00 pm (using 6 hr increments)
    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    David, I will let you do the math using Pool Math http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    Put your last evening FC level into Pool Math. See how much FC it took to bring it back to SLAM level. Have them put that much in the pool when they come over. You might need to tweak it but that will give you a base to start working with. When you get home see how it did that day and go from there.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Thanks Kim for the advice and it confirms what I was thinking. I have the pool math calculator bookmarked and use it often. So I had my neighbor come over today around noon ( 6 hrs from my am dosing) and add 44 oz of 10 % bleach. I was late in getting home tonight but like a true TFP warrior I checked my FC and had only lost 1.5 since my noon dosing. So I will be viligeant tomorrow despite a 90% chaince of rain and see if we are making some noticable progress. Thanks again to everyone who has responded.

    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Of course it will be raining tomorrow!! Gurrrrrrr LOL

    That is not much of a lose at all for daytime!

    Keep taking pics of your steps. THAT will show you the progress your eyes will not see day to day. BUT not in the rain LOL

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Well I'm back with more questions as I am still not seeing the kind of progress that I had hoped for. I've increased my FC to 28 and have maintained it for several days now but I can't see much improvement in my water clarity. About how many days should I anticipate it taking? I have been brushing twice daily (5 am and at 7 pm) due to my work schedule. I check my numbers at both brushings. During the day while at work I even have my neighbor or wife to add 5-6 cups of 10 % bleach between noon - 1 pm just to make certain that I am not falling below my target goal of 28 ppm.

    Taking it one step further, I even took all the sand out of my filter and deep cleaned it and checked the laterals on Tuesday. Man that was some nasty stuff. It took over 1 hr just to get the sand clean! My pressure gauge isn't working but I have one on the way and will update my post when it gets here. My pressure seems low to me as I placed a ping pong ball on the surface and it takes over a min to travel the 18 ft around the surface of the pool.

    My questions are:

    Given the number of days that I have been slamming and with the pump running 24/7 should I expect the water to be clear yet?

    If not, could the multi-port valve be the cause of my problems?

    Would correcting my PH and TA cause the clarity to improve?

    As of tonight (4/13 at 10 pm) my FC was 27.5, CC at 1 and my other numbers from my full testing on 4/12 at 3:50 pm was:

    PH 7.0 (added Borax tonight to try and adjust my ph up to 7.4)

    TA 60 (haven't added any baking soda yet)

    CYA 60

    Hopefully I have given enough information to start the discussion. Off to bed now as 4 am comes early.

    Thanks,

    David

    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Good morning David. While this thread began on the 10th, it sounds like you actually had attempted the SLAM a bit earlier. But in the earlier stages before the post, I'm not so sure you were at the proper FC level. So that could account for part of the frustration. You seem to be consistent with your CYA test result which is good. Sometimes a pool owner comes-back with a number too low (from what it actually is), in which case their FC is never high enough. How about those stairs? Have you taken them out yet? Stairs are a major source for organic housing. It can get into the steps themselves, so you may want to remove the steps if you can and check. See if that helps. Most importantly, an algae bloom takes some patience. You sound like you're doing all the right things (especially by deep-cleaning that filter), so now the bleach just needs to do it's job. Hang in there.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Hey David, The number 1 thing to know is sand filters can take a long time to filter. They also filter better when they are a little dirty, you can add DE to it this weekend but the pressure will rise fast so only do it while you can baby sit it

    When your fc is above 10 your PH will not be correct, so leave that alone for now.. just worry about keeping your fc above 28 at all times, you can take it to 31/32 that way it will still be above 28 when you get back home.. if its not above 28 take it 1 more fc higher until it is but from what your saying it will probably be good at fc31/32.

    This is the number one rule, sit back, relax and have fun it will get clear in its own time
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Thanks guys for the reply and for calming my nerves somewhat. I don't want to overthink this but I did want to make sure that I don't have a problem that I am not seeing and addressing. Not fully understanding my hardware (filtration, flow rate and water chemistry) just yet I wanted to be sure that I have covered everything. I will continue to strive for patience and continue to educate myself in this great forum.

    Splash-I removed the steps on Tuesday, when I deep cleaned the filter so as to remove any doubt about alge hiding somewhere the eyes and brush can't reach.

    Casey-I will give it a while longer before adding anything else besides bleach. If I should choose to add DE, what guide does one use in order to know how much to add? My filter is rate for 150 lbs of sand but I do have enough space to add a couple of inches of DE if needed. I have 7-9 inches of space from the sand bed to the bottom of the diffuser.

    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    If you choose to use the DE, the bellweather we use will involve your pressure gauge. Starting with a very small amount into the skimmer, you are looking for a 1 psi rise on your filter. So get your gauge fixed first. It's an important part of your pool maintenance.


    Your water looks close to being cleared up but you need a few more days.....that's normal

    I can't see how the multiport would have any effect.

    pH needs a little tweak but it is not related to your clarity in this instance. I suggest you leave TA alone.

    Stay the course. Open a bottle of POP (pool owner patience) and keep doing what you are doing. this will end well......we promise.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    borjis's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    also make sure it is DE for pool filters and not food grade/Ant repellent DE...big difference. one works the other will cloud your pool worse.

    I almost made that mistake once during a slam.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    thankkk

    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Sound advice ! Thanks to the both of you. As I have told my kids over the years you can listen and learn or you can live and learn. I always prefer to learn from someone else's mistakes. Now to open that can of POP. LOL

    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Hey, if you need to learn from mistakes .... I've got a whole catalog. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Angry Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    I'm back with an update and still seeking POP (pool owner patience). It's been yet another week and my water still isn't clear and I'm just trying to make certain that I've done everything that I should do to get this problem corrected. As a recap, since raising my FC to 28 and maintaining it for well over a week now I can see some improvement but not what I think it should be. I have been testing my water twice a day (5:30 am and after I get home from work 7-9 pm). My numbers remain fairly consistent and I have been having someone add 7 cups of bleach each day around 12:00-1:00 pm to keep my FC level up until I get home. There is nothing in my pool, and all I have is one skimmer and one return. I brush twice daily and have been manually vacuuming each evening. Today I started using my Diver Dave pool cleaner in hopes that he may get something that I may have missed.

    Here are my current numbers:

    last night at 10:30 pm

    FC 21 (added 75 oz of 10 % bleach)

    CC 0.5

    PH 7.2

    TA 60 (tested 4/12)

    CH (tested 4/12)

    CYA 60 (tested 4/12 & 4/17)

    This morning at 7:00 am ( I slept in as it's my day off)

    FC 27

    CC 0.5

    I received my new pressure gauge (it's worth the little bit of $ I spent on it at TFTtestkits.net) and my normal pressure after backwashing runs 6 psi.

    Think that covers the basics. Any suggestions?

    20160420_091049_resized.jpg
    David (Pool Newbie)
    Johnny Weissmuller 18x52 AG Round (approx 8,600 gal), 1 HP Pro Line Pump, Model #SD10-1N11CB, Hayward Dream Line High Rate Sand Filter, Model #S190TSCP (45 GPM Flow Rate) with Vari-Flo XL Valve, Model #SP0714TX, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit with Speed Stir.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA = Cloudy Water?

    Hello David. Since your CYA is 60, the SLAM FC is now 24, but if you go slightly over it's not the worse thing, just don't try get in the water. You sound like you're doing everything you should be. You are still backwashing as needed when the psi goes up by 20-25% correct? Nothing else has been added to the water other than regular liquid bleach right? You already took the ladder out as well. I would stay with what you are doing. You have a very solid routine. If it doesn't start to break in the next day or two, I may elevate your situation to some others for additional opinions. Have a good day.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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