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Thread: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

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    viking68's Avatar
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    Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Hey, y'all. Beautiful day in Orlando. About 70 just now and NO HUMIDITY - those rare days we LIVE for!

    So, ran my first series of tests, twice to make sure:

    CL - .5
    Ph - 8.2 - off the chart
    FC - 2.0
    CC - 0
    CH - 400ppm
    TA - 240ppm
    CYA - 30

    So, for a 30 year old marcite pool, 16000 gal (with the original marcite, no less - refinishing in the near future), PoolMath is telling me I need to add chlorine, acid and dump 13% of my pool water to bring down CH.

    Water is clear, DE filter stripped down and recharged 2 weeks ago. Pool has an annoying habit of algae growth if it isn't groomed every 4-5 days. Greenish - walls. I put this down to chemistry and the roughness of the old marcite although it's in reasonably good shape for 30 YO.

    Appreciate any comments from you veteran TFP users out there!

    Thanks so much - love my kit. Got tired of the lackadaisical testing at local B&M store. Told me I needed to add 5 lbs of CYA a couple weeks ago - didn't sound right so I didn't do it. Apparently, I don't need to!

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    First-----lower your Ph. Than raise your FC to target level for CYA 30. What is the source of calcium in your water? Was it artificially added by calcium or cal hypo? If it is normal for your fill water, replacing won't help.

    You show reading for Fc and CC. What is the CL for-represent?
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    HI! Oh yeah another FL person! You are SO right about this weather! THIS is why I live in FL! Just finished mowing the pasture and was loving it!

    Woody has you covered with what to do.

    SO glad you got a good test kit! You are going to LOVE how your pool looks once we get done with it!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Just change the CH target to 400. Voila! No water replacement needed. 400 isn't too bad. You get rain in the Summer, so hopefully it will get diluted some. And it'll all get drained if/when you refinish it.

    Fix the pH with acid and raise the FC to 4. The pH may require more than one addition since you're off the scale. So don't panic if you've added the right amount of acid and it still reads 8.2.

    You probably will want to raise CYA to 50ish with the Florida sun beating on your pool. When you do, you'll also need to raise the minimum FC and target values. But the daily usage should stay the same or even go down a little.

    Before you get too far along here, fill out the signature with your equipment listed.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    viking68's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Thanks!

    Fixed my signature line; Calcium Chloride was added - several pounds several months ago - can't really remember. Again, recommended by B&M test.

    Like I said before, I'm tired of their BS. So grateful to have finally bit the bullet and got my own kit and decided to participate here!

    Oh - the CL was just the chlorine from the taylor test kit - sorry to have confused you, woodyp!

    So, first step, get some acid. Next step, chlorine, test and then look at the CYA and TA again.

    Any preferences for re-finish? I like smooth...or should I post in another area?

    Thanks again!
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Yep--start a new thread in the right place and you'll get more help.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
    Pool Rover Jr., Pool Blaster Max, Diver Dave TF100 Test Kit/Speed Stir
    Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker, Liqour Chiller, & Drink Mixer & Party Tub----Collect 'um all!

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    You have it about right. Acid, then bleach. Before adding the bleach, verify one more time your CYA. If it's indeed 30, you may want to raise to 40 or 50ppm simply to protect the FC from that harsh sun. Remember to always go back to the Chlorine/CYA Chart (link below) to verify what FC you should be at for that CYA. Never let the FC drop below the minimum required. That's when algae tries to bloom. TA ... I suspect that was a testing error. If not, you will need to do a lot of lowering via Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity, otherwise it will continue to push the pH up high quickly. Let us know if you have any more questions.

    Oh, as for the finish .... if you are looking for many replies to that specific subject, you may want to post a new thread about plaster finishing in another forum (i.e. under construction or something). Many readers won't know you have that question here based on this thread's title.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Been gone a couple weeks -

    Chlorine - 0
    Ph - off the chart 8+
    TA - 240-260
    CYA - 35, which absolutely makes no sense, unless that is within my eyeball looking at black dot error range.

    Little green on the walls, pool is not cloudy, but it isn't crystal either.

    Brushed it, Dumped 2.5 gals pool store chlorine (out of acid - going to pick up a couple gals in an hour).

    Finally, since TA is still up there, rigged up a flomaster sump pump with some PVC and we have AERATION to help with that.

    So, what do y'all recommend when you have to leave for a couple weeks? Get my son over to brush the pool and just do a quick chlorine/pH test?

    Thanks!
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Now that you're back, it's probably good to re-cap a few things from your recent post:
    - Aeration will rise pH, but not TA. Probably should shut that off right now since your pH is so high
    - Speaking of pH, it's very important to start treating that high pH with acid ASAP.
    - TA is high (requires acid) which I'm confident is one reason your pH climbs so fast.
    - You have algae, and a SLAM is the only treatment (link below); anything less and you'll just be spinning your wheels every other week
    - Long term chlorination plan for those who are away from home .. SWG or liquid chlorinator/dispenser (i.e. Stenner, Liquidator, etc).

    But first, the existing algae must be treated/eliminated. If you have any questions on the SLAM page, please let us know.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Thanks so much, Pat!

    I got the pH down to 7.2; dosed with B&M Chlorine - 2.5 gals (they say it's 12%), but, anyway, monitoring and 1st check about 2 hours after dosing was 13.5ppm, 6 hours later it's at 12.0ppm, so that is proper SLAM dosage, if I'm doing this right.

    Will check again in the morning, backwash DE filter (broke it down completely about 6 weeks ago), recharge, sweep and continue monitoring.

    I cannot believe I didn't follow this program - obviously, without a feeder, I have been doing this all wrong for years. Used B&M testing every few weeks, dumped chlorine in when I "thought" it needed it - geesh - glad for TFP!! Never too old to learn!

    Thanks again.
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    You are on the right track! Test, dose, brush, check filter, repeat.
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Updates from Pool SLAM:

    Water - Crytal
    Chlorine 4.5 (I have not added any since the initial dose that took it to 12)
    pH: 7.5
    TA: 180 (I quit the aeration immediately last weekend); Total of 1 gallon of MA added in 3 separate doses over a week.
    CYA 30

    Backwash the DE - GREEN/GRAY. It's working!

    So - target appears right for chlorine @ my current CYA levels. Others here have recommended raising CYA. I've got 4lbs of dry 98%.

    I'm going to the math page to see what it says; have plenty of chlorine on hand to adjust per the chlorine/CYA chart.

    Just checking with you veteran TFP people - don't want to mess up my first SLAM; this water looks great.

    So, next step is?

    a) fixing the TA with acid
    b) bringing up CYA from 30 to____? (edit: it's taken a week for chlorine to drop from 12 to current level. Checking level every morning and drops for the last couple days around 0.5ppm day to day)
    c) something else I'm not familiar with 'cause this is my first SLAM?
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Just checking with you veteran TFP people - don't want to mess up my first SLAM; this water looks great.
    Just about perfect. You understand all the concepts and have applied them very effectively.....nice work

    Assuming you chlorinate without an SWG, I would suggest you move your CYA to 50 ppm, preparing for the Orlando summer!
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    viking68's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Thanks, Dave.

    CYA - all in one go or a couple doses - easy to add, difficult to subtract, no?
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Quote Originally Posted by viking68 View Post
    Thanks, Dave.

    CYA - all in one go or a couple doses - easy to add, difficult to subtract, no?
    A couple of doses is the smart way.......if you squeeze the sock to dissolve the power you can run the pump to mix it all in and test that afternoon and should know how high you got your CYA.

    We have been doing controlled experiments to find out how fast the CYA shows up on the tests. The above is what I did and it worked. My hands were a little sore but it was worth it to get it done.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Squeeze the sock? What am I missing? I got a 4lb bag of stabilizer from pool store.
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    To increase CYA via granular stabilizer, place the required amount as calculated by the Poolmath calculator into a white sock and suspend it near a return jet or in the skimmer. Best not to allow undissolved granules to rest directly against the pool surface. Squeeze the sock periodically to help it dissipate. Once dissolved, consider your CYA adjusted to that programmed (target) level, although the test readings may take anywhere from 24 hours to a few days to fully register. Confirm CYA in about one week before adding any more stabilizer/conditioner.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Here is a cheat sheet on how we recommend adding chemicals including CYA and sock squeezin! Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Very nice job of learning how to manage your pool!
    TFP Moderator
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    viking68's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    Must be a reason why (the sock), but wouldn't dissolving it in a 5 gallon bucket (table says I only need 43 oz granular to go to 50), 1/3 or 1/2 at a time be a more immediate solution to the solution? (couldn't resist).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks!
    16K gal, IG Free-Form Plaster (1986), 1 HP Pentair Superflo pump, PAC FAB FNS-36 DE Filter, Polaris 280, Screened, Cool Deck.
    Solar Heater
    TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Another First Timer - with the TF-100

    LOL! Sure, that is fine. I don't know how fast you can dissolve it in a bucket though. Different brands of stabilizer dissolve at different rates, some taking a few days. The purpose of the sock is to make sure the CYA dissolves in the pool and doesn't move to the filter and then get backwashed out and lost before it dissolves.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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