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Thread: experts please verify something for me

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    experts please verify something for me

    Just bought a foreclosure, 10k pool has been down for over a year. it has a SWG, but right now just trying to bring it back to life without it. pool is very dark brownish blackish green. can only see a few inches down. took some measurements. 0 cya so I started shocking with powder and threw some pucks in to bring it up while getting FC up (like my coke bottle puck floater?) .

    TA and PH in reasonable ranges. so shocking and brushing, but can't see anything clearing up. spraying down filter. got a new cart that I'm about to change out soon. I'm worried it's so cloudy and opaque that I'm gonna have to vacuum some garbage out of the pool to waste, but this is a cart filter.

    here's the pump setup picture below. am I right in this that #1 is the valve for the 2 drains, number #2 is the the skimmer.

    now number 3, on a cart filter like this, if I open that valve there am I just open to waste essentially? If I configure the other valuves to skimmer only and connect vacuum and open valve 3, am I essentially pumping to waste so I can vacuum some heay muck out?

    I have an external pump available to me that I was planning on using with a filter bag and just vacuuming with the return hose going back into the pool through the filter bag (kinda like a slime bag) to get a lot of this debris out after I shock for a few days, but then i was looking at this piping and can I just vacuum with the valves set to skimmer only and open that PVC valve labeled 3 in the pic and run a hose back to the pool with a filter bag without using the external setup?

    pooldraw.jpg
    pool img.jpg
    10k gallon IG pool. plaster/pebble. pentair clean & clear cartridge filter. Sta-rite max e pro model p6ra6e-205l pump. autopilot nano plus SWG

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    Simply put .. you need to perform a "SLAM" (link below in my sig). Use regular bleach only - generic is fine. Read that page carefully before starting the SLAM.
    But first priority - how are you testing the water? You must have either a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C to perform the SLAM and test FC at high levels. Pool store testing is a "no-no". See the TF-100 link in my sig.

    With the right test kit, because FC and CYA have been down to zero, you need to first add enough bleach to raise the FC to about 10. Test it in 10 minutes. If it drops below 5 (50% loss) then you have ammonia and need assistance to treat that first. Let is know how that turns out.

    Once we know you can perform the SLAM with no ammonia, there are a couple reminders:
    - You must have CYA (after confirming there is no ammonia as noted above) - set a target of 30 ppm using granule stabilizer. Use the "sock" method to soak it.
    - Adjust pH 7.2-7.5
    - Raise FC to 12 and keep it there while following all the other instructions on the SLAM page. No more pucks, tablets, or powders.

    Oh, as for the filter..... cartridge filters are not backwashed, so the cartridge will need to be removed/rinsed frequently during the SLAM.

    That should get you going. Let us know how the ammonia test goes and if you have any other questions.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    Your valve three will send "most" of the water to waste, but I see nothing that will prevent at least some of that yuk from going into your cartridge filter.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    My guess is that 1 is to two skimmers, 2 is the skimmer/drain, and 3 is as you describe. If there are two drains, they should be tied together to a single suction source so that a child cannot get trapped on the floor against the drain. You'll have to experiment a little with those 3-way valves to see which pipe goes to which skimmer. No matter how green the pool, you should be able to see movement. The valve inside is shaped much like the handle... The side opposite the lever is the closure and is pretty much triangular. So you can see how both 1 & 2 are drawing equally from either side. Turning the lever 90 will close one side off completely -- the side opposite the way it's pointing.

    You won't see much improvement in the water if there's a lot of debris in the bottom of the pool until you physically remove it. The chlorine will try to oxidize all of it, not just the algae. Haul up what you can using a leaf rake or leaf bagger.



    Then connect a backwash hose to 3 and you can vacuum to waste, pretty much. My advice is to get the vacuum in the pool, feed the hose down slowly to fill it with water and displace any air, and connect it to the skimmer while the pump is on and then open the waste port after you see the vacuum hose start to tense up. You'll see what I mean when it happens. But do remove as much as you can before vacuuming, because otherwise you will load up the pump strainer and run the risk of clogging the impeller or the underground pipes with debris.

    Also, if the CYA degraded into ammonia, you'll consume chlorine about as fast as you can pour it in the pool... and any CYA you add might get converted into ammonia as well, making things worse. All the FC will become CC almost instantly leaving none left to kill algae. Test the FC and CC thirty minutes after adding bleach to get to shock level. If CC is way high, like above 5, you have Ammonia.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    As for the valves ... the pic is kind of far for my eyes, so I would like to see a better (side) angle perhaps. #2 is definitely your suction. I can't tell if #1 is tied into that as well to the left. Do you have just a skimmer or also a main drain? #3 starts off the back of the pump and goes to that open end. So yes, I suppose you could drain water from there, although unlike a sand/DE filter with a multiport valve, I think some water swill still go forward to the filter right? I don't see a shut-off valve before the filter.

    Other good suggestions already noted. Let us know how it goes.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    no ammonia apparently chlorine is holding after a few hours. FC only dropped by like 2 since adding the shock bags after a few hours.

    There are definitely 2 drain grates at the bottom, i can feel them with the brush. and 1 skimmer (is there somewhere there's be a skimmer other than where the skimmer basket is?). There might be an auto vacuum port because i know some other pools in this neighborhood have them, but I can't see it and I didn't feel it brush the walls down, so maybe this one doesn't.

    if you can't see the pipes in the pic, two lines come up and feed into valve 1, which feeds into one side of valve 2 along with another line from the ground and 2 feeds into the suction side of the pump. valve 3 is a pvc valve that opens to air after the pump and right before the the filter, but as pointed out there's not a shutoff to the filter so some much might still flow into the filter tank if i'm vacuuming grossness out. The return jets and everthing seem to be fine as I can see the jets bubbling up and the water is definitely moving around.

    most of the debris I can see when I brush up is very fine just liike algea muck, there was a cage thing over the top with a plastic tarp that had to be removed and alot of the tarp just shredded. You can see its screened so there's no leaves or things like that. I've fished a ton of the shredded tarp out with a leaf net and there is still pieces that I feel like are caked into the bottom that I free up when brushing but that will be an ongoing battle. you can see little white flecks in the pic. I just don't want to like run through 5 filters trying to clean this amount of algae out.

    I am curious to see down into the pool quickly.That's why I was thinking I could just use the external pump and vacuum into a slime bag type of bag to catch the fine debris and much and just save the main pump system as much strain as possible. BTW that motor is new because the original one was of course seized up.

    edited: added the original pic which may show up larger. there's a shadow that is making it look like there's some sort of connection between valve 1 and 3 labels, but valve 1 makes a hard right turn into valve 2.


    pool.jpg
    Last edited by bonanz; 04-07-2016 at 06:03 PM. Reason: added larger pic
    10k gallon IG pool. plaster/pebble. pentair clean & clear cartridge filter. Sta-rite max e pro model p6ra6e-205l pump. autopilot nano plus SWG

  7. Back To Top    #7
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    Makes sense, and the pic helps. I like Richard's breakdown of valves 1 & 2. It's amazing you are holding FC. That said, test/adjust CYA to 30 ppm and maintain FC at 12. Shop around for bleach, you'll need it. But it will work. I would stay with the old filter for now and just keep rinsing it off each day. Keep an eye on the pressure gauge and suction for the first few days as you could end-up sucking-up something awful, and you don't want to clog your system or run that new pump dry. That's where those skim/fishing nets come-in handy. Stir it up and scoop.

    If you're worried about not seeing the floor drains, it's okay to start the SLAM with the skimmer only. At least until you have more confidence about what's down there in "the deep". Stick with the SLAM page and you'll see a change for the better. It won't happen overnight. Take some patience pills because that pond will take a few days.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and take at least one pic each day to monitor the water progress. If you have stairs, that's always a good place to see the changes.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    yeah I already calculated out the trichlor and cal hypo to get CYA and CH where I want and and have that ready to go to start off shocking. then I picked up 4 yellow 2.5ers of 10% from leslies. The lady at leslies was talking to me like I was an idiot for buying chlorine in liquid form. and kept saying buy cal hypo it doesn't add anything and really made it awkward to the point where I said look just sell me the chlorine. and she was like "well maybe one day you'll open your mind and realize you should use this powder and save some money." and then stopped at the register like she was waiting for me to change my mind.

    then i say no i'll just take these refills. and then she's like OMG you'll add so much salt and the chlorine just disappears from the sun. and then i say look i'm actually using some powder also, but I'm gonna wanna add some chlorine without adding anything else soon here. and she's like the powder doesn't add anything. I say THE CAL HYPO ADDS CALCIUM HARDNESS! THE OTHER STUFF ADDS CYA and she pauses and says, yeah but our city water is so soft i tell everyone they should be adding CH, and i'm just like....ok.... because I constantly refill my pool with city water so that matters....Then she helps me carry out the 4 jugs and is like "i'm just trying to save you some money"....I say, this is actually cheaper per unit of FC. this refills cost 17 bucks and to get the equiv of cal hypo is like 50 bucks....

    Then I say thanks for helping me carry these out and drive off.
    10k gallon IG pool. plaster/pebble. pentair clean & clear cartridge filter. Sta-rite max e pro model p6ra6e-205l pump. autopilot nano plus SWG

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me



    Wish we had a nickel for every time we heard that spiel from the PS people. It's amazing. Good you know better to grab and run. Good luck with your SLAM!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    I noticed that you have a salt water generator (swg). Is it working and have you tested for salt level in your pool? Your sig. says a tab feeder also is that a normal set-up?
    IG Vinyl, 40,000 gal., Hayward 1-1/2 hp pump, Hayward DE filter, Aqua Rite SWC, Hayward 250,000 btu heater, TF-100 Test Kit

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    poolfool9, looks like this is your first post with us. Welcome! Make sure you pop-over to the "Introduce Yourself" or "Just Getting Started" forums so we can reply to a thread of your own and see what your pool is all about.

    As for bonanz, his SWG is not operable at the moment, and we wouldn't use it for a SLAM anyways. The tab feeder will be empty as well.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    sorry, my sig is for my personal house, which is also out of date. I originally signed up to recover that pool (also a neglected foreclosure pool) around a year go. it wasn't as bad as this pool, but i did get it up thanks to the sage advice here. and used the tab feeder to get the CYA up, and then I installed an autopilot nano plus once my CYA was where i wanted it and it has been trouble free ever since.

    This pool is at an investment prop I bought. It is basically the same specs as my pool but just is way worse off than mine orignally was. this one doesn't have a tab feeder and has a hayward SWG already installed, that turns on and looks ok...(haven't looked at the cell yet, bigger fish to fry first) hopefully I can just clear some scaling off the cell and it's good to go, but I might have to replace it once I get the swamp under control.

    just checked FC after a few more hours and the FC dropped by 7. Added another shock bag and will check in the morn.

    updated sig to take out tab feeder and add nano plus. tab feeder for sale if anyone's interested lol.
    10k gallon IG pool. plaster/pebble. pentair clean & clear cartridge filter. Sta-rite max e pro model p6ra6e-205l pump. autopilot nano plus SWG

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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    almost there.


    20160415_120002.jpg
    10k gallon IG pool. plaster/pebble. pentair clean & clear cartridge filter. Sta-rite max e pro model p6ra6e-205l pump. autopilot nano plus SWG

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    The Picture above is further proof that we at TFP have no idea what we are doing and the pool stores are correct! Who would want to swim in the pool -- it has no vegetable matter at all!~!!

    Congratulations!!
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    jeffchap's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    But the Cal-hypo would have been cheaper. 😏
    25000 gallon free-form gunite
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  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    if only I was able to open my mind
    10k gallon IG pool. plaster/pebble. pentair clean & clear cartridge filter. Sta-rite max e pro model p6ra6e-205l pump. autopilot nano plus SWG

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    Flbeachluvr's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    Pool completed 3/21/2016
    8800 gallons, plaster 14' x 24', 3/4 hp Hayward pump, Hayward cartridge filter, Blue Essence T-5 SWG, Kreepy Krauly Kruiser, Taylor K-2006 test kit with Speedstir, Taylor K-1766 salt test and 250 sq. ft. of Heliocol solar panels with Pentair Solartouch control system

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    LOL! Where are the veggies? Nice pool!
    TFP Moderator
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    AprilsZoo's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    It's looking great!...
    In your initial pic you couldn't even tell there was a sun ledge there... I love it.

    And I saw no one commented on your "Coke bottle tab floater"... Looks like something I woulda come up with... Great minds think alike, right....


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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: experts please verify something for me

    NICE! Unreal what some bleach will do! LOL

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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