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Thread: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

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    under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    To be blunt, I don't know what I don't know.

    Here's the pool:





    - - - Updated - - -

    This is the pump:



    It's a Hayward Max-Flo XL 1.5 HP, and it's brand new.

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    The home was apparently leased out, and the tenants weren't exactly class acts in terms of how they took care of the property (and that's been good for us in relation to price!).

    The home was previously under contract (we're thinking it was an FHA loan), but we believe that the pump and the heater did not pass inspection. So, they removed the heater completely and installed the Hayward Max-Flo XL 1.5 hp pump.

    I guess my first set of questions would be about a a new heater. What's the best approach? (The home is plumbed for natural gas, for what it's worth.)

    I'm heading back over to the property in a couple of hours or so, and so I can gather more information in short order. I'l take pictures of the plumbing so I can give you guys a better understanding of what it is. What else might you guys need?

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Nice pool!

    Someone forgot to connect the bonding wire to the pump (that's what that copper wire lug is for).

    Let's us know what kind of filter there is.

    Without a heater, the attached spa is useless. New NG heater will cost you ~$4k or so. Find out why the old one did not pass inspection and take pictures of the gas line and all the electrical hookups. The more pictures we have to look at, the better.

    Also, if you can, find out how the water chemistry is being managed. You might grab a water sample and bring it to a pool store for a quick check. We don't believe in pool store testing and we will insist you get a recommended test kit if you want help with the chemistry but, since you don't own the pool yet, a pol store check is good enough for now.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Here's another pic of the plumbing, pump and filter:



    I'll have more to share later today.

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    As Matt said the spa is not to useful without a heater.

    You need to connect the bonding wire to the pump. The copper wire at the bottom of your pump picture connects to the top of your pump where the copper connector is located. Its important to protect you from electrical shock while in the pool.

    I have not yet received my merit badge in filter identification but that looks like a rather small sand filter connected to the pump and a Jandy cartridge filter sitting off to the side. Is the big filter on the left connected? More pictures from a differnt angle would help showing all the piping.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    We will get you all set up! For now just be thankful the water is clear! Who knows what the levels are but it is CLEAR! Can you go by every day and add 1/2 jug of Walmart plain bleach and let the pump run for about an hour? That will keep it from going green!

    When do you close on the house?

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions













    - - - Updated - - -

    The Jandy is obviously not hooked up. It's just sitting there (like I said, the home wasn't taken care of).

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    We will get you all set up! For now just be thankful the water is clear! Who knows what the levels are but it is CLEAR! Can you go by every day and add 1/2 jug of Walmart plain bleach and let the pump run for about an hour? That will keep it from going green!

    When do you close on the house?

    Kim
    We close in May, so I've got plenty of time to get things on the right track (or at least to make a plan).

    The pump is running currently, but I have no way of knowing what the chemistry is like - there is a bit of algae in the hot tub, so I'd imagine that it's a bit off. I shut the pump down and opened up the canister filter, and let me tell you that filter is NASTY! It definitely needs to be cleaned. The house is close so getting over there is a snap.

    I guess I need to get one of the test kits that the site recommends, huh?

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    I can see lots of room for upgrades but the question is - how much money can you spend?

    The Hayward cartridge filter looks to be half the size of the Jandy cartridge filter, but you'd have to compare filtration areas to know for sure. Unfortunately a small cartridge filter is a bummer because that means you'll be cleaning it a lot.

    As I said, without a heater, the spa is kind of useless. So that definitely needs to be high on the priority list. I see no gas line plumbed there. Is there a gas line?

    If you have green in the spa, you'll eventually have it in the pool. You're definitely going to need a Testkit. Either a Taylor K-2006C (off of Amazon) OR a TF-100 with XL option from TFTestKits.net. You're also going to want a SpeedStir either way.

    How are the electric utility rates in your area? You have a 1.5HP single speed pump. Single speed pumps use a lot of electricity. Many States have outlawed their use in new pool construction to force builders to sell more energy efficient 2-speed and variable speed pumps. You're pool is not complicated so having a 2-speed or a variable speed pump is an upgrade to consider especially if your rates are high.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    The house is plumbed for natural gas. It runs the hot water heater in the house as well as driving both a gas stove and a gas fire place. I didn't see a line near the pool filtration, though.

    I can spend a fair amount of money, but would prefer to go a more cost effective direction. As I said, the house wasn't taken care of properly and so there are quite a few needs elsewhere (i.e., stove, refrigerator, painting, lot of landscaping). Plus, we're looking to enclose a loft area for a movie theater/fifth bedroom, although that could certainly wait.

    A pool heater is an absolute necessity and one will be purchased. Would a gas heater be the desired approach? I'm certainly willing to pay a bit more for an energy efficient unit, but I'd like to consider all options. What types are there and what would should I expect to pay for each?

    I'll order a test kit in short order.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm sure these questions have been gone over before, but I sure appreciate you guys taking the time to walk me through it.

    And I'll definitely be spending some time reading other threads and getting "caught up" on the basics and not-so-basics.

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    it looks like they went the cheapest route to get it working, that filter is small and will need to be watched and the pump is a 1 speed lowest price Hayward, but it will work and if you want to save some money on electricity you can go with a VS or 2 speed pump..

    It is a nice looking pool

    +1 on the TF100 test kit, worth its weight in gold
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    The existing pump is also a LOT louder than a two-speed pump running on low would be. You'll hardly hear the a two-speed on low (which could be significant since it is right next to your seating area), along with using roughly 1/4 the electricity of your current pump. The hooked up filter is clearly small, though your debris load will also be lighter than average due to the screen house (but pollen will still provide you with a "busy season".) Hooking up that larger filter (presumably if it is in fact bigger and not just an optical illusion) would be a first priority since it's just labor.

    But you can still sit in the spa - it's not totally useless without a heater!

    Very nice looking pool/deck. It is nicely done and looks modern in the selections...as opposed to already looking older like so many pools already existing when people buy them.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Gas heater are best used when you heat the pool temporarily. Heater not in use, pool party on Saturday.....turn on the gas on Thursday and you are ready to go.....turn off when finished.

    A heat pump generally runs all the time in Florida's climate. Brings the water up to a nice temp and then holds it there......ready when you need it.

    (Like your username )
    Dave S.
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    In order to install an NG heater, you'll need an NG line run from the main service meter to the equipment pad. Typically speaking that can run $12-$15 per foot of line and may require a meter upgrade so that the heater gets a proper gas supply. You'd have to find a plumber in your area that's licensed to do gas work. Gas heaters are sold by the BTU/hr rating with 400,000 BTU/hr being the high end. I have a Pentair MasterTemp400 but Hayward makes them as well. However, everyone on TFP uniformly raves about the Raypack (Rheem) heaters and we have a few gas heater experts on the forum that will say Raypack is hands-down the winner. Figure a heater will run you about $4,000 or so. It's a lot, but the spa is useless without it.

    If not gas, then you can go with an electric heat pump but those are limited in output (not much more than 150kBTU/hr) and they will kill your wallet if electric rates are high. They also hear more slowly than a gas heater.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Would a propane heater be a thing to consider? A buddy of mine was adamant that I would be better off going that route (I'm just not sure he knows what he's talking about).

    The plan going in is to use the hot tub with some frequency.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post

    (Like your username )
    Go Gators!!

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    A propane heater requires a tank of propane gas. Do you have municipal natural gas or a propane tank on your property?

    Normally propane gas is more expensive than natural gas as it has to be trucked in and stored at a home rather than delivered through municipal supply. It's also higher pressure and, therefore, more dangerous than NG.

    If you have NG it's makes no sense to get LP as you'd have to have a tank installed which is way more expensive than just having a plumber run a line.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Okay, so the home is plumbed for natural gas but I cannot find a line near the pool area. It appears that it just runs inside the home.

    I've never lived in a home with natural gas as so know next to nothing about it. How expensive would it likely be to have a NG line installed? Am I looking at thousands of dollars or just several hundred?

    I guess I should get a professional out to evaluate, huh? The long term savings are probably just too good to pass up, right?

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Pool builders will typically install NG lines for a rate $11-$15 per linear foot of pipe run. So you need to measure the distance from the main gas line to the pool equipment pad. You will likely need a meter upgrade as well because pool heaters use A LOT of gas.

    Consult a plumber that is licensed to do gas work for the going rate in your area.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    There is probably natural gas out to the heater you just can't find it. The cost can vary a great deal from several hundred up to yes several thousand. Have a couple plumbers out for estimates. You are going to need one to hook up the heater anyway.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: under contract for home that has a pool, and I have questions

    Lets make a list of MUST haves for when he is ready to get it ready and then when he is ready to up grade.

    MUST haves:

    -GOOD test kit (see above for which ones)
    -brush and pole
    -net (it will fit on the above pole)
    -pool vacuum of some sort

    Upgrades when ready:

    -heater
    -bigger filter if that one is not bigger
    -at least a 2 speed pump if not Variable speed
    -lounge chair for me pool side! LOL

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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