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Thread: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

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    ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

    Hi Folks,
    I kinda took the winter off, and am now getting back into cleaning and testing my water.
    When I tested 2 weeks ago, I had zero chlorine, but everything else was pretty close.

    Today, I got the following results.

    FC=3.6
    CC=0
    PH=7.8
    TA=100
    CH=400
    CYA=48
    Temp=68
    SI=0.12

    I am not positive with the CH reading though. Step 4 of the CH test, tells me to add R-0012 , one drop at a time, while swirling, until the water turns from red to blue.
    I have NEVER been able to get a blue result.
    I always give-up when the purple/violet color stops changing color as more drops are added.
    Am I alone in this finding, or should I be able to get a true blue color?

    Other than my CH question, I am pretty happy with the test results.
    I will add a little acid to reduce the PH and help balance the SI.

    Any other suggestions would be welcome.

    Thanks,

    Mike
    12,000 Gal plaster pool & spa.
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    Do the calcium test on you tap water which is likely much lower than the pool's CH level. See if you can get an idea of the color change.

    It does turn a light blue color but the transition is often hard to see.

    Your TA is a little on the high side but if you find your pH is relatively stable, then leave it as is.
    -Brian-
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    Looks good! You can let your TA drop to 80 or even 60 to help slow PH rise. Or you can lower it by following this, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    This might help with the CH test, Pool School - Calcium Hardness

    You really need to be able to pat your head and rub your belly! Swirl with one hand and drop with the other. Sounds like you might need a speedstir, TFTestkits.net
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    Thanks for the reply, Brian.
    I will test the tap water. That is a good idea, to get a reference.

    On the TA. I worked last year to try to bring it down.
    I made a huge aerator to try to agitate the water. (that was the last straw for an old air compressor. I STILL haven't replace it.)
    Then I connected a pvc pipe to one of the return lines, so that the return water would drop a few feet back to the water surface.
    Neither one had much effect in changing PH or TA levels.

    Do you have a trick to suggest, to bring the TA back down?

    Thanks again,
    Mike
    12,000 Gal plaster pool & spa.
    Jandy 2.7HP V.S. e pump, with IQpump control.
    Jandy AquaPure 1400. Jandy PDA.
    Solar heat. Jandy 400btu ng heater.
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter. Polaris 360 sweep.

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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    Maintain a pH of 7.2. The pH rises quicker at lower pH levels which will require more acid, the acid lowers the TA in the process. Once the TA is as low as you'd like it, let the pH sit around 7.6-7.8.
    -Brian-
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    thanks, guys.
    Pool DV, If I typed quicker, I would have seen your reply before I posted my last.
    When I aerated, I was thinking of an aerator in a fish tank. I drilled a bunch of holes in a pc of 2" PVC, capped one end, connected the other end to a hose from my compressor and sunk it in the deep end.
    It looked cool, but I think that the bubbles were too few and too large.
    I have read the posts that you had mentioned and will be making a new aerator to attach to my 1-1/2" return.

    I will post my results in a few days.

    Mike
    12,000 Gal plaster pool & spa.
    Jandy 2.7HP V.S. e pump, with IQpump control.
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    I can relate. When you're dealing with CH close to four figures like I am, it can seem impossible to get it from purple to blue. Two things help: use a 10 ml sample so each drop is multiplied by 25 and use a speedstir. Sometimes a second cycle of the speedstir will nudge the color across the threshold without any more drops.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness anf general warer condition

    Hey Mike,

    Next time you run CH on either sample, add a drop or three extra color indicator in either sample. Pool or tap, and it may help you see the end point better. It won't change the results in terms of accuracy, but this usually helps make it more vivid.
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

    OK, so, I said that I would come-back and share my results.
    I made an 1-1/2" aerator, using the description in Rangerball's post. Thanks PoolDV, for the link.

    It works AWESOME. Since it is threaded into the return port, I am able to turn it to create any angle of flow that I want. I found that by having the end cap about 3" below the water surface, I was able to get about 3-4 feet of "rooster-tail", before the water splashes back to the surface. (if the cap is not below the surface, the spray goes over the fence. DOH)

    I brought the TA down to 60 (from 100)
    I am hoping that this will save a fair amount of acid this summer.

    Thanks for all the input.

    Mike
    12,000 Gal plaster pool & spa.
    Jandy 2.7HP V.S. e pump, with IQpump control.
    Jandy AquaPure 1400. Jandy PDA.
    Solar heat. Jandy 400btu ng heater.
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter. Polaris 360 sweep.

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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

    How did the CH testing go?
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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

    I didn't order a speedstir yet, but I did test the tap water for comparison.
    As suggested, with the tap water being a lower CL level, I was able to get a nice blue.
    I then went back to the pool water and was more patient.
    By swirling more vigorously and for a longer period of time, I eventually was able to get to blue, but the CH was even higher that I thought.
    I am measuring 450 in the pool. The tap water was 225.

    Mike
    12,000 Gal plaster pool & spa.
    Jandy 2.7HP V.S. e pump, with IQpump control.
    Jandy AquaPure 1400. Jandy PDA.
    Solar heat. Jandy 400btu ng heater.
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter. Polaris 360 sweep.

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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

    Quote Originally Posted by newmaac View Post
    I didn't order a speedstir yet, but I did test the tap water for comparison.
    As suggested, with the tap water being a lower CL level, I was able to get a nice blue.
    I then went back to the pool water and was more patient.
    By swirling more vigorously and for a longer period of time, I eventually was able to get to blue, but the CH was even higher that I thought.
    I am measuring 450 in the pool. The tap water was 225.

    Mike
    450 CH is still easily managed. My all-time low was 440.

    Here's what you do: go enter all your now numbers in Now and Target in poolmath. One at a time, change the target parameters and see what happens to the CSI. Raise the water temperature. You'll see that CH itself has less effect than pH and TA and temperature on CSI. You'll also see how high you can push CH with pH between 7.2 and 7.5 and TA at 60 and still keep CSI in the neutral zone. (+/- .30) It should put an end to a lot of unnecessary worry.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: ?'s regarding Calcium Hardness and general water condition

    Thanks, Richard.
    That is a great explanation.
    I will play around some more with the Math page. I use that calculator often, but have never taken the time to "play" with the numbers, to see how they (individually and combined) affect the SI reading.
    Cool stuff

    Mike
    12,000 Gal plaster pool & spa.
    Jandy 2.7HP V.S. e pump, with IQpump control.
    Jandy AquaPure 1400. Jandy PDA.
    Solar heat. Jandy 400btu ng heater.
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter. Polaris 360 sweep.

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