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Thread: New (again)

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    New (again)

    Hi everyone, I learned a lot at the end of the season last year but have slept since then so I feel like I'm starting over. Have an in-ground pool with liner, approx 11000 gallons. Took the covers off and cleaned and shocked with 3 bags so far of the 1 pound bags from Walmart. Frankly Im surprised at how well it looks so fast. I did add a large bottle of vitamin C. All the test I have done are as follows:
    Total Chlorine----zero (not even close to being on the scale)
    PH----------------below 6.8 but close
    Alkalinity---------30 ppm
    Hardness---------36 ppm
    CYA---------------below 30 ppm (whole tube full and still see the dot)
    Temperature-----58 brrrr

    Was hoping for guidance on what order to adjust levels and recommended products. not against pool store bought but would like to start use of the everyday items like bleach borax and baking soda. strictly for cost savings. any help would be appreciated. I will cruise through Pool School while i listen.
    Thanks and good to be back
    Alan
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12' X 24' in ground pool with a vinyl liner. Ranges from 3.5' to 6' deep. Rectangular with plastic step on a long side corner. Sand Filter by Jacuzzi and a 1 HP magnum force pump. I have the Taylor K-2000ish DPD test kit (branded for Leslies) also several other style and strips.

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    chiefwej's Avatar
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    Re: New (again)

    If you really want to follow TFP methods, the first thing you need is a better test kit. All our methods are based on very accurate, dependable testing. Pool store tests are notoriously inaccurate. Strips are useless. There are only two test kits that are acceptable, and of these the TF100 is the best value.

    What I would recommend is order a test kit. While waiting for it, buy a lot of plain bleach and add a half bottle a day until the kit arrives. Spend all your spare time reading Pool School and figuring out how it all works. Don't listen to anyone except those on the forum, and stay away from pool stores.

    End of my lecture. Someone else will be along shortly to help out.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: New (again)

    chiefwej's lecture is the same as mine!! Please read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School to get started.

    I would also add that using the TFP method "strictly for cost savings" may prove tough. Use it for learning about your pool and you will probably save some money along the way.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New (again)

    Welcome back!

    You're not doing too badly. The Leslies DPD test kit is a K-2005. All you need to make it a K-2006 is this. See what other refills you need and order it all and save on shipping.

    That said... I question the CH reading. 36 didn't come from a strip or a drop test. Typo maybe? Could it be 360? If so, you're okay. It's manageable.

    What you do need is to get that pH up. When it's really acidic like that it can do nasty things to the heater and any metal parts inside the pump and filter. Because you also have low alkalinity, I'd recommend Washing Soda/ Soda Ash/ pH Increaser to raise it to 7.4 or so. Doesn't matter what it's called, it's all the same chemical. Poolmath can crunch the numbers for you.

    Step two is to raise that FC to a target of 5.

    Step three is to add some CYA. Maybe 20 ppm. That test doesn't work well when the water is real cold, so you may be higher than you think, so work up to your target.

    Step 4 is to retest pH and TA after the pH adjuster has had some time to mix. Brushing helps a lot to mix it well. Fine tune the pH and if TA is still low, then use Baking Soda to raise it.

    Refresh your memory a bit and check out Recommended Pool Chemicals and How to use Poolmath. They'll tell you what chemical does what and how to add it and how to figure how much to add.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New (again)

    Thanks again Richard. Hope this isn't double reply. Not seeing my first one. The hardness was 120. I dI'd botch the first test.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anyone have any clue what and why the vitamin c clears up? Lots of chlorine turns pool dark brown or even purple. Vitamin C clears it almost instantly. Thank all

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    Re: New (again)

    Last year my CYA got sky high. If I read it right, seems too high makes it hard for chlorine to work and needs more to read. Seems okay or low now. Don't want to ruin that. Everything said you had to drain and refill to fix. What makes it climb? Was using the 3 inch pucks to sanitize. Fear it was them. Thanks again

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New (again)

    That would be metals in the water. Common for pools that are filled from a well. People with metal in their water need to treat that water with a "sequestrant" that helps control the effects of metal (water color and staining to the pool). Please see Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Richard will post back soon, but those pool store tablets are most likely your cause of the excessive high CYA. That's why TFP doesn't recommend their use on a daily basis. Only for some specific situations.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by alan523 View Post
    Last year my CYA got sky high. If I read it right, seems too high makes it hard for chlorine to work and needs more to read. Seems okay or low now. Don't want to ruin that. Everything said you had to drain and refill to fix. What makes it climb? Was using the 3 inch pucks to sanitize. Fear it was them. Thanks again
    If you've been chlorinating with pucks, I'd question your CYA test results. Unless you've had a ton of rain diluting the pool, it should be higher than 20. Also, extremely cold water makes that test read low. Pull a water sample and bring it in the house and maybe set it in a sunny window and let it warm up and then run the test and see what you get. Take a reading (outdoors, in the sun) then pour it back in the mixing bottle and try again. There's no shame in doing it a dozen times if that's what it takes to start seeing consistent readings, say within 5 either way.

    Pucks are also very acidic, which goes a long way towards explaining the low pH and low TA you have right now.

    120 CH is fine for your vinyl pool liner. Some people report a lot of surface foaming with real low CH, so if it happens and it bugs you, add some Calcium. But it's not necessary for the pool. You don't need to worry about etching the plaster.

    Vitamin C reacts with metals in the water. You could have Iron in your fill water, or someone could have used some copper-based algaecide, or -- worst case -- the low pH water has started dissolving the heat exchanger in your heater. But we don't know if you even have a heater. Fill out your signature so we can stop speculating.

    If there are metals in the water, then a sequestrant is called for. Sequestrant is to metal as the hard candy shell is to the chocolate on an M&M. It's still there, it's just sealed up so it can't get all over everything. There's an article in pool school concerning metals and metal stains.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New (again)

    Thanks again. Haven't used the pucks yet. Just shock. Water is cold. No heater. I thought I did the signature but I'll update it. It's not well water but way out in the country only one on the end of the line. Have noticed issues in the house fixtures. Toilet sinks bath...with staining that I don't remember years ago.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New (again)

    Make sure the Show Sig box is checked, lower left of text box. Once checked it will stay checked.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New (again)

    It is. Maybe cause I'm using the mobile version. But I appreciate it.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New (again)

    Yes, sometimes there is an issue with the mobile version showing the sig.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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