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Thread: High SI with recommended chemical values.

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    High SI with recommended chemical values.

    I tested this morning, and had Leslies test the salt.

    FC = 5.5
    CC = 0
    PH = 7.4
    TA = 100
    CH = 350
    CYA = 65
    Salt = 3300
    Borate = 50


    When I use the pool math calculator I get a SI of -.39. In my Circupool SI30+ specs on the power box label are -0.2 / + 0.2 (a bit tight, I'd say. The manual says -.3 / +.3, but what the hey.)

    I can zero in by increasing TA, but that goes against the recommended TA of 60 - 80. NOTE: I got 50 TA using the 10ml sample, and 100 using the 44 ml sample. I'm very careful with my tests.

    Suggestions?

    Thanks in advance...
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckiechan View Post
    I tested this morning, and had Leslies test the salt.

    FC = 5.5
    CC = 0
    PH = 7.4
    TA = 100
    CH = 350
    CYA = 65
    Salt = 3300
    Borate = 50


    When I use the pool math calculator I get a SI of -.39. In my Circupool SI30+ specs on the power box label are -0.2 / + 0.2 (a bit tight, I'd say. The manual says -.3 / +.3, but what the hey.)

    I can zero in by increasing TA, but that goes against the recommended TA of 60 - 80. NOTE: I got 50 TA using the 10ml sample, and 100 using the 44 ml sample. I'm very careful with my tests.

    Suggestions?

    Thanks in advance...
    What test kit uses a 44 ml sample? I'm aware of testing things using 10 ml and 25 ml, but I've never seen 44.

    Anyway... if the TA really is 100, it seems that aerating the water vigorously to drive the pH up to about 7.6 will fix the CSI without getting on the pool store chemical merry-go-round. If the TA is 50, raise the pH with Soda Ash. That will also raise the TA a bit.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    I agree, just let the pH go up an bit. I would try to work the TA lower though if you are seeing a lot of pH rise to often.
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    I have the Taylor 2006 kit. The large tube is about the size of a roll of quarters. Mine goes 10ml, 25ml, 44ml. Most of the tests use 44ml, but have a 10ml option to save chemicals.

    I'll keep an eye on TA since it's early yet and still pretty cold.

    I'll keep an eye on it. It's early in the season and coming up to a warranty anniversary, so I wanted to make sure it worked.

    Thanks for the help,

    Chuckie

    PS, speaking of the pool store, I swear she said that if I didn't get my phosphates out right away with her special sauce @ ~ $50, the water would reach out of the pool and strangle the closest child!
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    Most of the tests in the K2006 use a 25ml sample size. The 10ml size is only referenced as an alternative method to save reagent when you know your drop count will be high.

    The 44mL sample size is ONLY used for the pH test.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    Also, just so we're clear on terminology, most manufacturers use the term saturation index (SI) and are referring to a modified form of the Langlier Saturation Index (LSI). PoolMath computes what's called the Calcite Saturation Index (CSI) and it has slightly different ranges. The CSI's -0.3 to +0.3 recommended range is roughly equivalent to the LSI's -0.2 to +0.2 range. The scales are not the same.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    I know I have to keep my Circupool SWG in a tighter range than my old Aquarite or it clogs. I presume the SI, numbers have something to with that if they are out of recommend range?
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    Clogs with calcium build up between the blades? Keeping your CSI score in Poolmath slightly negative, -0.1 to -0.2, will prevent that from happening. I haven't had to clean my SWG cell ever, going on 4 years old.
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    That is my ultimate goal. I was there last year. Borates helped me a lot.

    It seems the biggest SI mover is TA & Ph. So to get to -0.2 I need to raise TA to ~ 140 which is ill advised or keep the PH a bit higher. However, as you know a SWG keeps pushing up the PH, and if I don't lower it, the SWG is prone to build ups.

    So using pool math with a 7.6 PH, I need TA at 100.

    So I'm going to begin aerating soon to bring the TA down to and adjust from there.

    So I'm somewhat confused, and maybe reading too much into it.

    Note: I suspect my Circupool SWG system is more fussy about balance than the more expensive systems.
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: High SI with recommended chemical values.

    Lowering your TA will also help to reduce your PH rise. It is fine to lower your TA as low as 60. Maybe lower it to 80 and see how PH does, if it still rises try 70 then 60. Until your PH stabilizes, it will likely stabilize at 7.8, and it will be easier to maintain CSI.
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