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Thread: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

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    Post Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    I have studied the various threads on salt v chlorine and would love to use salt, but my PB is basically threatening to withdraw his warranties if I do. It appears that the primary benefits of salt are 1. the feel to the skin 2. convenience - not having to add chlorine daily 3. lack of chlorine smell.

    Why do PB seem uniformly against salt and pool users almost uniformly love it?

    If I succumb to the pressure of the PB to get a chlorine system, could I balance the negatives by:
    1. Using UV lights to eliminate the chlorine smell, and if so, what size lights would I use since my pool is so large? Are the promises of a second level of bacteria protection sufficiently valid to support the cost? Any idea of a rough cost? Hayward's is called HydroRite. Has anyone used it? If I choose a SWG, should I still get UV lights?

    2. Does anyone have experience with Hayward's Sense and Dispense product - HLChem - that monitors ORP levels and dispenses chlorine if it is needed. Would this really do away with daily dumping of chlorine in the pool?

    3. Still no answer for the dryness feel to the skin of chlorine v silkiness of salt? Any other ideas?

    Would love any SWG lovers to give me ammunition for my PB. He keeps saying I could always add SWG later.

    Thanks so much.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    bmoreswim's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    Stay tuned...helpful discussion to follow.

    But to whet your whistle, you already have all the UV light you need, just look up in the sky at that big ol' round orange ball.

    A TFPC maintained pool will not smell like combined chloramimes (the chlorine smell you mention). Guaranteed.
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    Susan,

    Keep in mind that Salt pool is a chlorine pool. The Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG or SWG) just uses the salt and electricity to create chlorine, instead of having to manually add chlorine.

    Wow, a 58K gallon pool would probably take more than one SWG to operate. Why is your PB against them?

    I love my SWG and would never go back to a non-SWG pool.

    I guess my question is.. Who is the PB building the pool for? You or him???

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    The smell you keep referring to is not from too much chlorine ... it is from not having enough chlorine to remove the byproducts of breaking things down. If you follow the TFP guidelines, you should never have this problem ... with or without a SWG.

    The issue builders have with SWG is that the higher salt levels can deteriorate natural stone around the pool and can result in faster corrosion to steel around the pool. Most people never have these problems, and other people do. I think I recall reports of problems with auto-covers on SWG pools.

    To address your questions:
    1. Adding a UV light or Ozone to a residential outdoor pool is a waste of money ... the sun provides all the UV you need to help breakdown the chloramines.
    2. ORP sensors are prone to problems, especially in outdoor pools. I would not recommend them.
    3. You can add some salt to your pool without a SWG, a level of 1000ppm is pretty common just from adding bleach. Raise it to 2000ppm and you get most of the feel. Adding borates can also improve the feel.

    Another option to automate the chlorine addition would just be to get a peristaltic pump to daily feed the bleach into the pool. You still need to be testing daily to ensure the levels are maintained correctly, regardless of the route you take.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yikes, just saw the size ... that may require commercial SWG or multiple residential units. Or you are going to be needing to add a LOT of bleach.

    Assuming a 2 ppm daily loss (since you have a cover), that will be over 2.7 jugs of 8.25% bleach or 2.3 gallons of 10% chlorine ... that is about $5 per day just for sanitation.

    Also, realized you have a cover, you will want to let the pool breathe daily to allow the CC to be broken down to avoid the smell. If you may leave the cover closed for long periods of time, then actually adding an alternative to aide in breaking down the CC could be useful.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    There's no way I'd manually chlorinate in a pool that size. My pool at 30K is bad enough with jug lugging. SWG or bust! Like others have said, you'll need a commercial grade SWG. The Saline C 6.0 by Hayward might be worth looking into. I don't know anything about them but they are sized for very large pools (125K gallons, 6 lbs. of chlorine per day). Salt Chlorine Products | Hayward Salt Systems Rule of thumb is to oversize your SWG to twice your pool volume if possible.

    UV and/or ozone systems are a waste of time. Don't properly sanitize and you still need chlorine anyway.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    Why do PB seem uniformly against salt and pool users almost uniformly love it?
    Very few PB's are against salt and most encourage it's use.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    My pool was completed at the end of Nov. I got quotes from several major builders in AZ. They all discouraged me from going salt and tried to sell me their ozone toy. I finally decided to go the owner build route. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I want what I want. I didn't need any builders telling me what I want because they get a huge margin on the ozone ****. I would explore an owner build or find a builder that will do what you want. You are paying them! I love my salt system so far!!!


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Very few PB's are against salt and most encourage it's use.
    In AZ, the major builders are starting to be very much against salt. 3 major builders did all they could to talk me out of it. They are pushing ozone hard!


    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    Remember, pool builders seem to be pretty clueless about the day-to-day maintenance of pools. Most just want you to sign on the line and possibly to buy products they get a larger kick-back from. After the pool is done, they have their money (often before it is even complete) and could not care less about the quality or ease of maintaining your water.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I wonder how many of the sales people actually own and maintain their own pools? I think that is something I would be asking if I were in the market.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    I did not know of the 6C , that thing is huge and would work awesome for you... I now you can run dual 40k or 60k SWG's

    Make it easy for them, tell them you are using a SWG. That easy, if they walk away there loss (they won't) they would lose 60 to 100 thousand dollars over a SWG would be really stupid for them... ask them why they do not want to use it, usually for soft stone.....
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine Plus UV Lights - As Good As Salt?

    Others have covered the SWG issue. I agree 100%

    Stay away from ORP chemical control. It is not a good control method for chlorination because chlorine stabilizers (cyanuric acid or CYA) interferes with the probes operation. It is also overly complicated - residential pools absolutely do not need positive feedback control systems. You can manually chlorinate your pool or automatically chlorinate a pool WITHOUT needing any form of real time feedback. It is simply a waste of money and will lead to endless frustration in setting up, calibrating and maintaining the control system.

    I think you know why your PB is against salt - he's trying to sell you lots of fancy toys you don't need at inflated costs that make his profit margins better. As others have said, your PB works for you, not the other way around.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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