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Thread: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

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    I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Here is my analysis sheet. http://i.imgur.com/xmy7mPU.jpg?1

    This was run by the local pool store. The shock recommendation was... shocking. So after posting on reddit, I've had more than one person tell me to investigate TFP. I'm intrigued. I've done all the necessary newbie reading and it's most definitely making sense. However, I was wondering if someone could help me interpret these results and maybe help explain it like I'm.. 12 or 13 maybe? I understand the pool analysis is basically saying I need breakpoint chlorination and at this point it appears that my CYA is too low for that to happen. I either need fresh water or what appears to be an insane amount of shock. That part is what is confusing me.

    So--if I forget about the "recommendations" and just look at the analysis. Can anyone help me in some next steps. Someone told me to try about 18 lbs of baking soda to get the TA up to level, 1 gallon of liquid bleach for the chorine, and 1 gallon of stabiliser for CYA.

    Is it really that simple? How can it be that simple and the other method from the pool store say the only options are replacing a large amount of water or put 84+ lbs of shock.

    Any help is REALLY appreciated. I hope I have all the information in my signature as recommended.

    -Dan

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Welcome to TFP!

    The first thing you need to realize is that we do not trust pool store testing, especially the computerized version. As such, we are to be very hesitant to offer advice based on that sheet.

    Investment in a one of the recommended test kits and then doing it yourself, will save you considerable frustration and money in the future.

    How does the water look? I do not understand the recommendation of a lot of chlorine based on that sheet.

    Also note there is really no such thing as breakpoint chlorine levels.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    First things first, like Jbizzle said. 1. order Tf-100 test kit 2. buy nothing at pool store 3. Read through pool school on this site 4. stock up on liquid chlorine, aka plain bleach from your local store. While you're there, you can buy some baking soda and some granular pool Stabilzer (should say 90% + CYA on the label).

    While you wait on your test, you can add a half gallon of bleach to the pool every day (or a gallon of bleach every other day). Don't add anything else until you get your test kit and can test it yourself
    15,000 gallon free form Viking fiberglass pool. Hayward Star-Clear Plus C12002 cartridge filter. Hayward Swim Pure Plus T-15 SWG. Testing with TF-100 Kit. 2 speed 1.5HP Supreme pump. Dolphin Nautilus robotic cleaner

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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    I second the recommendation of a recommended test kit. It will make life so much better when maintaining your pool.

    Highly recommend the speed stir as well.

    Our neighbor is still bound to the pool store although they are intrigued by what I do which is simply test chlorine and pH daily and add acid or bleach as needed. I've even told them it takes me less time to do my maintenance than for them to drive to the pool store and back. And I spend A LOT less.

    But it all starts with knowing without a doubt what the numbers are.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Welcome to TFP!

    It seems very unlikely that your CYA is 0. Do you chlorinate with trichlor pucks now? Did you recently drain and refill your pool?

    For now the only thing I would recommend is this
    1. Order a TF100 from TFTestkits.net. Get the XL version if your pool is cloudy or green.
    2. Add 1/2 a jug of 8.25% bleach to your pool daily until the test kit arrives.
    3. Post test results when you receive your test kit.
    4. Add your state to your location so we know what your climate is.

    Tell us how your water looks and how you chlorinate your pool.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    About the only test result on that sheet that I'd trust would be the pH, because even the dipsticks usually get that right, or at least close enough. While the vinyl liner won't etch like plaster, that's still a little to acidic for eye comfort and it can start corroding metal parts in the pump, filter, and heater if you have one.

    If (big if) the rest of the results are accurate, then it's not all that difficult to fix things up. Raise the pH. Odds are, you probably have some leftover pH increaser - which is also called Soda Ash, Washing Soda, or Sodium Carbonate - which will raise pH and add a little alkalinity. If you don't, go check the laundry aisle of the grocery store for Washing Soda. Next step would be to add enough CYA to get to about 30. You can find it at big box stores like Lowes and Home Depot and Walmart cheaper than at the pool store Don't wait for it to dissolve, just assume it's all there and working and take the FC up to 12. Recheck it every hour or two and replenish the lost FC to maintain 12 FC until the water is clear, there's no more CC, and the FC holds overnight. It's all in the SLAM directions.

    The big problem for you is that to do the SLAM (shock level and maintain) process requires a proper test kit. That's step one for you -- order up a proper test kit. It would be exceptionally rare to find a Taylor K-2006 in stock at the pool store. Don't let them sell you a K-2005. It's not the same. FAS is not the same as FAS-DPD. Or avoid the pool store entirely and order a TF100, which is a better buy. If the pool is cloudy or green, invest in the XL option, too.

    When the SLAM is complete, you let the FC level fall below 10 and retest everything with your kit. Then you can fine tune pH and TA with borax and/or washing soda and/or baking soda, all available at the grocery or big box store. You don't need to worry about low CH with a vinyl pool. You'll probably want to raise CYA closer to 50 then, too, and then maintain the appropriate FC level for that CYA value.

    It's really that easy with your own kit. Testing and dosing is probably two minutes a day. Brushing and vacuuming maybe an hour a week.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    I want to share this link with you.............it REALLY is this easy! Now do NOT go buy anything on this list except bleach (plain, unscented bleach). Once you get your test kit and tell us what THAT says we can walk you through what needs to be done to "fix" your water.

    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    DrDan, welcome to the best source of information there is on pools

    Grab you a test kit and walk away from the pool store forever, unless you want the newest pool toy they have but I would recommend amazon for that...
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Dr Dan

    You need to run from that pool store. They have the Bio guard system which is just a way of selling you undisclosed pool chemicals at a premium price. Get the recommended test kit and then this is easy.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    TS, you are giving Richard320 a run for his money as "Best TFP humorist"

    Seriously, thanks to both of you for the time you spend posting up thos pics and text.......they are funny for us all.
    Dave S.
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    That picture is adorable!!

    Dr.Dan, if I can do it, anybody can.
    My Pool Build (2015): inground 12K gals gunite/plaster pool, SWG, 2-speed pump, cartridge filter, gas heater, and polaris cleaner (Jandy). TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speed Stir

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Welcome to TFP - stick around and you won't look back. I've been through the pool builder and pool store wringers with respect to pool chems, sanitizing and balancing. I have a humble theory that the big box stores crushed the pool store margins, and the pool stores are doing anything they can think of to keep going. In just a few short months, I've had a few experiences that would have cost me in the long term.

    I went to five pool stores, after getting advice that I needed to find a pool store I could trust (1st warning). The readings were different from all five stores, and not by small amounts (2nd warning). One told me I had stabilizer yet none had been added yet. One showed phosphates at 100 ppb and their own sheet showed a tolerance of 200 ppb, yet they wanted to put me on a phosphate reduction program, and brought out a 6 bottle case of phosphate reducer telling me how much I'd save if buying by the case (fired them). One place used a dipstick test strip in a tray of water that was half my sample, and half whatever was in there before (fired them) and then told me all's good, just add a bag of salt and some phosphate remover. I asked for the printout and they said sorry, the system's down. So I chose the one I thought I could trust.

    They tested my water and the very experienced counter guy was careful about it. "Looks good" he says, and out came the printout, recommending phosphate remover and 18 lbs (8 kg) buffer to get me to TA 160. This kind and experienced fellow winked at me and whispered, "Don't quote me, but you don't really need that much, just use 9 lbs (4 kg)." So I thought I had found my trusted pool store! But even that much buffer was enough to put me on the TA/pH roller coaster and with advice from here I was able to correct it, but it would have cost me $5-$10 a week. Not bad compared to the phosphate expert!!

    I had been warned off the glossy brochure systems already but 2 of the stores recommended those or similar systems and gave me a very well rehearsed sales pitch.

    As mentioned, the testing is not too big a thing, and you'll pay for your test kit with $ savings on chems really fast. If you need help, it's readily available here at TFP, and the advice is friendly and science-based.

    Hope this helps you off the ledge
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcion333 View Post
    Welcome. You can order Taylor's K-2006C complete test kit from Amazon.com. It's what I use; it's very well organized and has good instructions.
    Or get the TF-100 which has more of the tests you actually need (and fewer of the ones you don't) for less money. As you can see in the Recommended Test Kits comparison table. Not to mention the personal, second to none, no questions asked customer service you will get
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Hey, all. We have inundated the OP with our enthusiasm... Just a suggestion: Let's see if OP responds before we further advocate.

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    I don't know, I like a variety of responses when I post on a forum where I'm new. With only a few, it always leaves me to wonder. Lots of good suggestions here.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    You need to slam. Great site, just decide to study and learn it. Not rocket science, so do it yourself!
    36000 Gallon, IG, biggest Hayward sand filter, vinyl liner, Polaris vacuum

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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Sorry all. I didn't mean to wait this long before I replied. I'm studying away and I'm ordering the test kit now. I think it's starting to make sense--Im just trying to forget everything the pool store has told me. I have a big bag of baking soda that the previous house owner left. I'm hoping that will be useful. In the mean time, I'm going to go buy some bleach until my test kit comes in. The pool is pretty clear but starting to turn a bit teal now. Ive made the decision to not ever go to that pool store again.

    I will post my test results as soon as I get my kit.

    Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. I'm hopeful now.

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Thanks. I'm ordering the test kit XL with speedstir today. The water was blue (but that was right after the pool store sold me a bunch of shock and algaecide. However, in the last few days it's starting to get a green color back--this is because I've been avoiding doing anything until I get my kit and proper advice.

    I think I have a relatively OK handle on the basic understanding and I'm sure I will understand it all much more when I get my test kit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    I want to share this link with you.............it REALLY is this easy! Now do NOT go buy anything on this list except bleach (plain, unscented bleach). Once you get your test kit and tell us what THAT says we can walk you through what needs to be done to "fix" your water.

    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Kim
    Thanks! I'm going to buy bleach right now. I already have some baking soda left over from the previous owners. A big bag. I'm ordering the test kit and will wait on that to arrive before I move forward with any other purchases. Thanks!
    24,300
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: I need to be talked off the pool store ledge...

    Dan! I am so glad you see you again! I wondered where you went!

    You are going to LOVE the test kit and your pool now! Wait until you see how clear it gets using TFP!

    There are videos if you need help OR ask us and we can walk youthrough the tests.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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