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Thread: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

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    Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Hey all,

    I had a brand new H400FDN heater installed on 12/21/2015. It worked fine up until today. When I turn on the pump, the heater lights flicker and then it goes dead. Turning off the pump and restarting it resulted in the same thing a few times. Now, it appears to just be completely dead. It's been used for a TOTAL of probably less than 40 times and it appears to be dead already. This is insane!

    Anyone have any ideas or input?

    Thank you!!
    Approx 25k gallon PebbleTec in-ground diving pool and attached raised (10 person?) spa, with spillover and waterfall.
    Hayward AquaLogic PS-4 control board, Hayward SP3400VSP Ecostar pump, Hayward C5520CP cartridge filter, Hayward H400FDN 400k BTU NG heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    No idea. Should be under warranty if only 3 months old.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    You checked the igniter?

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    You checked the igniter?
    It's dead. No lights or apparent power to the unit at all. The lights flickered a little, but now they're dead.


    Approx 25k gallon PebbleTec in-ground diving pool and attached raised (10 person?) spa, with spillover and waterfall.
    Hayward AquaLogic PS-4 control board, Hayward SP3400VSP Ecostar pump, Hayward C5520CP cartridge filter, Hayward H400FDN 400k BTU NG heater

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Who installed the heater? With your control system the heater display should always have something displayed. if set-up properly it should say "bo". There's a 3amp fuse on the main board that might have blown. I'd start there.

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Yuuuuup. Welcome to Hayward FD heaters. I have not seen anything good of these units. After you check the fuses, I hardly see them blow, you will want to confirm that your power coming in is good. Then you can check to see that there is power from the transformer to out to the system, 24V. Now you could just have a bad display board which happens often as well as the ignition control board. Many times the ignition control board shorts out the display board and you end up replacing both.

    However, you are in luck that your system should still be under warranty. Call their repair number and get someone out to fix the thing.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Thanks for the feedback guys! I'm already regretting choosing Hayward as the replacement. Really wish I chose Raypak. I have the company that installed it coming to check it out tomorrow. My fingers are crossed.

    Approx 25k gallon PebbleTec in-ground diving pool and attached raised (10 person?) spa, with spillover and waterfall.
    Hayward AquaLogic PS-4 control board, Hayward SP3400VSP Ecostar pump, Hayward C5520CP cartridge filter, Hayward H400FDN 400k BTU NG heater

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    What's the difference btw the Hayward H400FDN and H400FD Heater ?

    Also, I would check the power source and your breaker panel? As stated, you could just have a bad control board...not sure if having a bad display would prevent it from working just bc it does not display the LED. Prob your control board, which the display is impacted directly.

    Make sure when the installer comes you sit right there and watch the whole process. Ask, what happened, why it happened and what are the changes of it happening again? Document everything and take pictures...pic's don't lie...also take a pic of what is being replaced.

    Post back after the tech gets there and let us know what happened...good luck.
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    What's the difference btw the Hayward H400FDN and H400FD Heater ?

    Also, I would check the power source and your breaker panel? As stated, you could just have a bad control board...not sure if having a bad display would prevent it from working just bc it does not display the LED. Prob your control board, which the display is impacted directly.

    Make sure when the installer comes you sit right there and watch the whole process. Ask, what happened, why it happened and what are the changes of it happening again? Document everything and take pictures...pic's don't lie...also take a pic of what is being replaced.

    Post back after the tech gets there and let us know what happened...good luck.
    FD "N" is for natural gas. FD "P" is propane.

    LOL asking them why it happened. I can tell you why, it's a Hayward.(Sorry for the sarcasm but these units have issues) I repair so darn many of these things. They are a huge money maker for repair guys like me. If the display board is shot, the unit will not turn on. Not only is the display board for display, it also has the keypad attached so you are left with no controls.

    Usually what I see is the ignition control board has bad resistor that blows and it not only takes out that board but also the display board as it is plugged into the ignition control board.

    I have had one customer where I replaced both boards in three years. That should tell you something is wrong with these units.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Quote Originally Posted by ps0303 View Post
    FD "N" is for natural gas. FD "P" is propane.

    LOL asking them why it happened. I can tell you why, it's a Hayward.(Sorry for the sarcasm but these units have issues) I repair so darn many of these things. They are a huge money maker for repair guys like me. If the display board is shot, the unit will not turn on. Not only is the display board for display, it also has the keypad attached so you are left with no controls.

    Usually what I see is the ignition control board has bad resistor that blows and it not only takes out that board but also the display board as it is plugged into the ignition control board.

    I have had one customer where I replaced both boards in three years. That should tell you something is wrong with these units.
    Thanks Paul. I have a Hayward H400HDN...it was installed Nov 14, but not activated until 3/15 due to a long install.

    I've developed a pretty good relationship w the Hayward rep. I was not aware these heaters "having a lot of issues". During your experience as a tech in fixing these, have you developed or seen any trends as to why these malfunction or ones that work for yrs w no issues {ie, where they are installed, usage rates, good power and gas supply that meets requirements, cover or protection from sun, installed in moderate vs very cold climate, salt vs chlorine, high vs low pH, etc]? I've tried to elicit a few possible examples, but obviously since I have one of these heaters, your comments concern me. this would pertain to anything I bought if someone that works on the product I bought stated the facts of frequency of repair.

    In your professional opinion, is there anything a user can do to put the odds in their favor to extend the both the life and proper functionality of these units? The Hayward rep I spoke to told me that they need to be used on a regular basis to ensure continuity of the unit. The old adage "use it or lose it" surely applies to a lot of my weekend farm machinery and combustion-abased engines...

    Anyway, I would appreciate your thoughts or anyone else's that repairs pool equipment and their thoughts on these heating units?

    Thank you very much,
    tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Thanks again for the input, guys!

    In MY case, it appears I lucked out. The original installer came to check it out today, and according to him, it was just the fuse that popped out of its mount. He said he reseated the fuse and that was all it took. I have it on now, and it seems to be fine.

    Approx 25k gallon PebbleTec in-ground diving pool and attached raised (10 person?) spa, with spillover and waterfall.
    Hayward AquaLogic PS-4 control board, Hayward SP3400VSP Ecostar pump, Hayward C5520CP cartridge filter, Hayward H400FDN 400k BTU NG heater

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric618 View Post
    Thanks again for the input, guys!

    In MY case, it appears I lucked out. The original installer came to check it out today, and according to him, it was just the fuse that popped out of its mount. He said he reseated the fuse and that was all it took. I have it on now, and it seems to be fine.

    Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk
    good deal Eric...glad it was something miner...Paul, I would appreciate your opinion when you have the time on a few of the questions I proposed

    Happy Easter to all, tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    I'd love to hear what ya'll have to say about these heaters as well because I'm getting a electric Hayward Heat Pump to keep my new pool heated/chilled as desired. It is also supposed to heat only my spillover spa if I so desire. That eliminated the need for having a separate gas heater. Can't say I'm not a little worried after reading this thread...
    15 X 34 Pacific Blue Viking Fiji, 3'6" to 6', 12,000 gallon with spill-over spa wrapped in stone, 2 laminars, noche travertine coping, & spray deck patio. Hayward Heat Pump, SWG

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    tstex,

    While I believe in the use it theory, I can tell you that these units just have issues. Using the units or not has little to do with boards burning out and the leaks in the heat exchangers. It's simply poor design and their lack of willingness to look at the issues. I and three other installers have talked with sales and service reps years ago and they refused to acknowledge the issues even when shown to them. I install far more Raypak units, a much simpler unit, and they are almost flawless. Plus they do not have extra parts, blower motors and boards, like the Hayward. Hayward had issues back in the day on the IDL2 units and went back to the ED series which was an almost flawless system. The ED2's were workhorses. Then came along the FD units. I and others have given up selling them but we sure love repairing and replacing them.

    Sta Rite/Mastertemp's are also problem childs and I do lots of repairs on them. The old Laars Lite units where work horses and I still to this day come across 15+ year old units that just need a new switch or something and they keep heating. The new Jandy units aren't that great either.

    If anyone wants a great unit, pick Raypak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Lily View Post
    I'd love to hear what ya'll have to say about these heaters as well because I'm getting a electric Hayward Heat Pump to keep my new pool heated/chilled as desired. It is also supposed to heat only my spillover spa if I so desire. That eliminated the need for having a separate gas heater. Can't say I'm not a little worried after reading this thread...
    If you have a spa, keep the gas and you'll be happy. Remember, a heat pump relies on the ambient air temp to put heat in the water.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric618 View Post
    Thanks again for the input, guys!

    In MY case, it appears I lucked out. The original installer came to check it out today, and according to him, it was just the fuse that popped out of its mount. He said he reseated the fuse and that was all it took. I have it on now, and it seems to be fine.

    Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

    Hmm, that's a new one, fuse popping out. Glad it's fixed and running though.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    I am too!

    PS0303, my pool guy also recommended Raypak. He said he'd seen some issues with the electronics of the Hayward. Despite that, I went Hayward. It was a few hundred cheaper, and I was pinching pennies at the time because we literally just closed on the house. Plus, it just looked like a simpler install, as the IDL (that was replaced) and the FDN have essentially the same for factor.

    Approx 25k gallon PebbleTec in-ground diving pool and attached raised (10 person?) spa, with spillover and waterfall.
    Hayward AquaLogic PS-4 control board, Hayward SP3400VSP Ecostar pump, Hayward C5520CP cartridge filter, Hayward H400FDN 400k BTU NG heater

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Eric,

    Did the tech that reinstalled the fuse give you a solid explanation as to why it popped out? I have never seen a fuse pop-out, but I have seen the center strip burned in half and/or the glass part badly clouded. Have you had any surges, spikes or electrical storms that coincide w the time the heater cratered? Also, have you had any breakers thrown on your main panel or pool subpanel? Lastly, any GFCI's outlets that have recently had to be reset? Do you have 4+ daughters that use their hair dryers all at the same time lol Just got back from spring break skiing and the four girls had 9 suitcases...If there were no such thing as wheels on suitcases, my CNS breakers would have all been blown by now

    Ok, back to serious matters...Where is the fuse located on the heater? It is possible that a weed-eater or something else dislodged it?

    Happy Easter, tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric618 View Post
    I am too!

    PS0303, my pool guy also recommended Raypak. He said he'd seen some issues with the electronics of the Hayward. Despite that, I went Hayward. It was a few hundred cheaper, and I was pinching pennies at the time because we literally just closed on the house. Plus, it just looked like a simpler install, as the IDL (that was replaced) and the FDN have essentially the same for factor.

    Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk
    Raypak should be close to the same price if not cheaper than the Hayward. A Raypak will fit very nicely in the same footprint as the Hayward and very little piping needs to be added.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Just curious, how do Pentair heaters compare to either of those brands?
    To be built Spring 2016. 750 sq foot gunite free form. Raised spa with spillover and dedicated pump, 16 foot fiberglass slide built into hill with bolder steps, approx 1,000 sq foot stamped concrete deck, Pentair VS+SVRS pump, Sta-Rite 400,000 btu gas heater, Sta-Rite System 3 cartridge filter, Pentair Intellichlor IC60 SWG, Pentair Intellichem, Pentair Easytouch, Rapids 4WD pool cleaner, 2 LED Intellibrite lights.

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Go with Raypak and you should be a lot happier in the long run.

    The best way to look at what brands are better etc, consider this, the more parts something has the great possibility of things to break and the higher cost of ownership down the road. If you can buy product A that has less parts and performs the same functions as product B which has a bunch of parts, why not go with A.

    Also when considering Pentair, remember that the Star-Rite and Mastertemp units are the same exact unit but different outside cabinets. One is round/dome and the other is square.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Brand new Hayward heater dead already???

    Here is a great thread that tells the story from a consumers point of view with regards to the Hayward heaters and what he went thru.

    Need New Heater Advice needed

    I just didn't want people to think I am just biased against them for no real reason.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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