I may have made a dumb purchase! I'm waiting for my new Pentair, 3hp 011018 Intelliflo pump/motor to arrive. However, I'm looking through the owner's manual and see that the motor is listed as a three phase motor. My electrical service from S.M.U.D. (Sacramento) is not three phase service. But I'm looking at the wiring diagram, and it looks like as long as I wire it for 230 volts (two hots, and one ground), that seems correct. I'm thinking that very few single family homes have three phase service, but the Pentair Intelliflo pump is widely used by many homeowners. Am I over thinking this? Pherhaps someone can set me straight on this. I don't want to void the warrenty, I don't see anywhere in the wiring instructions that says you must have three phase service. The pump that's in there now, I wired for 230v, but it's a single speed motor. Any advice is appreciated. :compress:
Pentair Intelliflo 011018 three phase electrical service required?
- Thread starter Lancer308
- Start date
Though the motor is three phase, input power is standard 240VAC. The motor power is generated by the controller.
Thanks John, I thought that pump should work OK for me, because so many people use them. Is the controller part of the circuitry in the pump itself? I'm reading the manual;"There is a capacitor bank that holds a 230 VAC charge even when there is no power to the unit", so it sounds like the controller you mention is part of a sophisticated circuit design. It should be, for a $900 pump. I appreciate your input.
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
Chief, can you clarify that, I'm not an electrician, but I can follow directions. Surge protection, would that be GFCI?
Couple of points. Chief is suggesting you install a surge protector in the subpanel to protect the electronics of the pump from lighting strikes. In rough numbers they cost about $100. That is not GFCI. Elk Grove does not have that many lighting storms so very few pool owners protect their pumps with a surge protector. Your call.
Second you need to understand that if you install the pump yourself or if you purchased it over the interweb then you only have a 60 day parts warranty. To qualify for Pentair's 1 or 3 year warranty generally you must purchase the pump from a brick and mortar store and have it installed by a qualified installer. http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/LimitedWarrantyCard.pdf
Second you need to understand that if you install the pump yourself or if you purchased it over the interweb then you only have a 60 day parts warranty. To qualify for Pentair's 1 or 3 year warranty generally you must purchase the pump from a brick and mortar store and have it installed by a qualified installer. http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/LimitedWarrantyCard.pdf
Thanks gwegan, I understand. It's fair that Pentair wants a certified installer, so they are not responsible for someone screwing up the installation and frying that expensive motor. I'll research the sub panel/surge protection. Also, SMUD won't issue the rebate unless there is evidence of "Education" for correct installation. The only reason I hesitate to pay for the installation; my system is so simple, just a pump and filter. I installed the previous single speed motor and it has lasted for years. It still works, I'm just tired of paying $0.25 an hour whenever the old pump is running. I'm hoping the new Pentair Intelliflo will save money while running, as it is advertised to do. I'm not an electrician, but I do have degrees in welding technology and construction management. How much do you estimate a simple intall would cost? What if I prepped all the piping and connections myself, then had it finalized? I mean there is just the inlets and outlets to the pump and filter, it's like 3 pipes (from suction inlet, to pump and outlet, and to the filter, and the discharge/return). The pad is already there, and I can use custom unions for easy connect/disconnect. If I understand how everything works, I hate to pay for an over-priced install when I could do it myself. It's like going to leslie's pool, and having to pay $40 for a Barracuda diaphram that you can get online for $7. I appreciate your input, I'm not being arrogant about my abilities, or think I'm a know-it-all, I'm just trying to do things econimically, and have a high efficient system that saves energy (and money).
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
I actually installed two surge protectors. A larger one is on my main service panel and protects all my electronics. It's a Eaton 109420 Ultra Surge Protector and cost $110. But the smaller one I have on the pump panel specifically to protect the VS pump was only $25.
Amazon.com: Square D by Schneider Electric SDSA1175 Panel Mounted Single Phase Type 1 Surge Protective Device: Home Improvement
As far as Pentair's warranty policy, I bought my pump from an online retailer and have a full warranty. At the time I bought mine Pentair was offering a special rebate, but to get it and the full warranty you had to have it "professionally installed". I called them and asked for a definition. They said as long as I sent in a bill for the install from a plumber, electrician, pool service company, along with the warranty card it would be acceptable. So I had a friend check my work and give me a bill. No problem.
When installing the pump, I highly suggest that you use the couplings that a specifically designed to seal against the pump body with O-rings. They only cost about $25 and make the job easier and insure a leakproof connection.
Thanks Chief, I shall use those custom couplings, I see rubber o-rings on there, I'll button it up good, with provision to be able to disconnect it if I have to. I think I'll contact an electrician that replaced my main service panel, and see if he will inspect and certify my hook up for safety and circuit integrity. Thanks for you help and words of encouragement.
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
Just make sure his bill is for "installing" the pump. Oh, and I also confirmed that the online retailer I used was an authorized dealer with Pentair. Most are, but there are a few shady sources on eBay that may be selling "factory reconditioned" or returned items that won't qualify for the full warranty.
FYI, I installed the same 011018 pump last summer myself, submitted the SMUD rebate form, and got my $100 check a few weeks later. I left the "Salesperson Information" section completely blank -- it mentions a course requirement to be eligible for the "Installer Incentive", but I think that's a separate thing that they'd get their own check for.
I did add a handwritten note in the new pump horsepower section, because the eligibility terms seemed to imply that the new pump's max HP must be no greater than the old pump's, and I was replacing a 3/4HP single speed pump. That obviously wouldn't work for anyone putting in a 3HP Intelliflo. I assume they're really trying to avoid replacing a 3/4HP with a 1.5HP 2-speed for example, resulting in the same or greater usage. It would be silly if they disallowed all VS pumps (all I could find were 1HP or more) and forced a 2-speed that couldn't be dialed down as much. I wrote "Installed w/max speed limited to 3/4HP equivalent", which was true; I used an ammeter to set the IntelliFlo's max speed to the same amperage as the old pump. And of course, I almost never run at even that max speed.
Lets clarify something for the folks watching at home:
Pentair changed their warranty requirements for pumps in February this year.
The current Pentair Warranty Card (Version V 2/2016) which sets forth the current Pentair warranty is very clear(yea well it tries). http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/LimitedWarrantyCard.pdf
Pumps purchased from other than a brick and mortar store (via the web) only get a 60 day warranty. It apparently does not matter that the dealer is or is not an authorized dealer. That is in footnote 2. This version supersedes all prior versions. That is at the bottom of the warranty.
So what Chief did last year or even in January might not apply. The warranty says it will not work. But we don't know how this will operate in the real world. Why would you not warrant the pumps sold by authorized dealers?
Pentair changed their warranty requirements for pumps in February this year.
The current Pentair Warranty Card (Version V 2/2016) which sets forth the current Pentair warranty is very clear(yea well it tries). http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/LimitedWarrantyCard.pdf
Pumps purchased from other than a brick and mortar store (via the web) only get a 60 day warranty. It apparently does not matter that the dealer is or is not an authorized dealer. That is in footnote 2. This version supersedes all prior versions. That is at the bottom of the warranty.
So what Chief did last year or even in January might not apply. The warranty says it will not work. But we don't know how this will operate in the real world. Why would you not warrant the pumps sold by authorized dealers?
Wow, this is fascinating stuff! I downloaded the warranty card, and sure enough; "Pumps purchased online (via internet) will only receive a sixty (60) day limited warranty". You know, my real motive for doing this "upgrade" was to save energy, as opposed to running the old single speed pump. Pentair's advertising claims 90% energy savings with the 011018 pump, and that one is specifically excluded from the 3 year warranty. Go figure, I guess this is a real case of "buyer beware". They don't even support their own premier product to the higher standard of 3 years. I don't see a lot of complaints for this pump breaking down though, so I'm hoping it works our for me in terms of reliability, and economical extended operation. Can you imagine a $900 pump that only lasted 60 days? Wow, such a deal! Great for the environment (the landfill). Even the beat up old 3/4 pump that's in there now has worked for the last 12 years (and still works). Thanks gentlemen, for your inputs. Jmastron, you have installed this pump, how has it performed over the last year? Is it still in service?
Wow, that's a pretty crappy warranty -- even if you do meet all of the purchase and installation terms, they also exclude all of the labor and shipping in both directions. So in addition to paying a few hundred more to purchase at a brick&mortar store and have a "professional" install it, you might incur another hundred or more dollars in getting the defective unit replaced. Oh, and the "extended warranty" for the common 011018 IntelliFlo is 2 years, not 3 (or was it always 2?) I like the Pentair products, but geesh...
At some point it becomes a "self insurance" gamble -- I believe my credit card's 1 year extended warranty coverage would apply, so it's let's call it $300 savings vs the risk of failure and having to buy a new $900 pump in months 14-24. Assuming less than 1/3 of these pumps fail in that time period (I hope!) it may be a good bet to forgo the warranty if you have the ability to replace if needed. Still annoying though.
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
I just read the new warranty limits and if you look carefully at Limited Warranty, B "two (2) year warranty" you will see that it applies to the 011018 model and does not have the "bricks and mortar" restrictions as does D " three (3) year warranty" that applies to the new 2 VST pump. So the new more expensive pump is the only one with this restriction.
Chief, thanks for pointing to that. That being said, it seems worth it now, to have someone certify the installation. There's a lot of small print there, hard to decypher (hehe). I should be able to get this done and look forward to the new technology/benefits that the 011018 should provide. I've been learning about the surge protectors, so I should be able to have that installed also. Option "B" warranty makes a big difference because the savings are significant by buying online. Leslie pools wants $1299.99 for that pump. Dang, I couldn't afford to go that route. That price seems to be "usary", charging that much for a pump you can buy for $845 ($455 difference), I'll be happy not to have to buy from Leslie's pool supply.
- Jun 12, 2011
- 3,763
- Pool Size
- 19500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pureline Crystal Pure 60,000
Have you checked with your power company about a rebate? Many (not mine
) give a rebate or credit on your bill for installing a VS pool pump.
) give a rebate or credit on your bill for installing a VS pool pump.Chief, yes I have. S.M.U.D. offers $150 rebate, and the 011018 is listed as one of the eligible pumps. Of course, there is the requirement to demonstrate that it was installed by a qualified technician, and an education requirement. Jmastron (see above) says he installed the same pump, and received his rebate from S.M.U.D. (Sacramento Metropolitan Utilities District). That was one of the main reasons that I decided on the 011018 pump, the rebate would bring my cost for the pump down to $704. SMUD had sent me a little device that displays my power usage via telemetry from the smart meter at the main service panel. Anytime my pool pump is on, (even as I sit here right now), I can see the the cost to run the pump is $0.21 per hour. During the summer, at periods of high usage, it costs even more. This is why I wanted to upgrade to a smart pump. Pentair claims as much as a 90% reduction in running cost, so I'm hoping all of my planning will come to fruition. I have been reading about all these new technologies, so I want to upgrade and take advantage of them, even though there is significant up-front expenditures to make the transition. Even changing out my underwater light to a new LED should help. I don't even go in the pool, but the wife and kids love it.
Chief, does your pump panel have (how many breakers) dedicated breakers for two 115 volt legs for the pump, and dedicated breakers for the Surge Protector? Could you wire it by using tandem breakers (share the legs for the pump, with the surge protector) if the breaker allows for two connectors? I have a Cutler Hammer service panel (Eaton), but I don't have any room for a dedicated set of breakers for the 1) whole house surge protector, or 2) dedicated breakers for the pump surge protector. It sounds like you have a sub panel for the pump, with dedicated breakers for the Surge Protector, and the two hot legs for the pump. Is that how yours is wired?