SWG Newbie question

[Tigershark]

We have had our pool over 6 years and before I found this website I wanted to fill in my pool with a back hoe after the first 2 years. Last year I discovered the site and started testing my water, I was one on the pool store customers that had their water tested weekly and paid ridiculous amounts of money for chemicals that pretty much ruined my water. My CYA was so high in the fall I drained 3/4 of the pool during winter closing and let mother nature fill it up. It's still a month away from opening but I am seriously looking into switching over to SWG.

I am going to be switching to a Pentair VS pump to help with the electric bill. My single speed is still running but our electric bill is crazy when the pool is running so hopefully it will pay for itself in a year or 2.
http://www.poolzoom.com/pentair-342001-superflo-vs-variable-speed-pool-pump.html

I am looking at the Hayward AQR15 to go along with the VS, I have read some about automation but don't really know how it works or if it is beneficial. Is the move to SWG something that has to be done while the pool is up and running or can it be done ahead of time while the pool is still closed? Is there anything else I might be overlooking ?

thanks,
Brian

 

[cowboycasey]

Hey Brian, I installed mine before I even had a pool, you can do it while it is closed.. You do not HAVE to automate, but with a VS pump you will probably need to... There are many ways to accomplish this it just depends on how you want to go...

1 or 2 speed pump, you can use a mechanical or digital timer and turn both SWG and pump on at the same time. As for the VS pump I am not sure.

You can also use a system like mine that will run about 500 bucks for automation, when it comes to Pentair or Hayward automation I have no idea

 

[Tigershark]

thanks for the input I appreciate it

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Before you spend oodles on a VS pump and automation, since your current pump works quite well, I'd start by identifying if you run your pump more than necessary? Will you recoup the expense versus paying the electric bill? Would it be better to wait until you need a new pump to go VS?

As to the SWG- YES! Do it! Best thing in the pool world, IMO. Perhaps do that first, and get all comfortable with how this works then move on.... It isn't like it will be any easier or harder to add the VS pump and automation later.

Just some frugal-motivated thoughts I had.....

Yippee (the cheapskate)

 

[Tigershark]

Yippee,

My average electric bill when the pool is off runs 200-250 when the pool pump is on I average over 550+. Had the motor rebuilt within the last 2 years and it does run fine but seems to draw a ton of electricity. It runs 8-10 hrs a day. These numbers include my AC so I have identified the Pump pool as the culprit. I think the VS will save me a lot of $$$, I don't know much about automation and right now I see the ROI on a VS pump and secondarily see the SWG as a huge benefit. I still need to read about the automation and learn more about it but I do appreciate your feedback

 

[cowboycasey]

at that cost you will recoup your money in 2 months on a 2 speed pump and probably within the year on a VS...

1hp 2 speed Pentair 438 bucks Amazon.com : Pentair 340042 SuperFlo High Performance Energy Efficient Two Speed Pool Pump, 1 Horsepower, 230 Volt, 1 Phase - Energy Star Certified : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden
220v timer 75 bucks Intermatic T104P DPST Time Clock, 24 hour, 208V to 277V, Grey - Wall Timer Switches - Amazon.com

that's 500 dollars and whatever you get for a SWG that can be wired into the same timer

 

[pooldv]

You probably are running the pump too much, but if you get a VS pump it won't matter. I run mine at 1100 rpm 24x7 because we have lots of trees. It uses 150 watts and at 10.25c/kWh it costs less than 12 bucks a month to run 24x7.

Here is a good pump for you, Pentair SuperFlo VS Pump 342001 | Pentair 342001

I use the pump's built in timer to control the pump and the other timer to control the SWG run time.

 

[Tigershark]

thanks for the information. Pooldv, that is the exact pump I am looking at, I didn't realize it had 2 times one which could be used to control the SWG.
I will also research the 2 speeds as well

 

[pooldv]

No, I wasn't clear on that, it doesn't have two timers on it. I use the pump's built in timer to control the pump and a separate mechanical timer to control the SWG run time.

 

[ping]

You do not need automation to run the SWG along with a VS pump. What you do need is an extra timer to run the SWG. Without automation you will have to periodically check that the SWG's timer is in sync with the pump. The SWG does have a flow sensor that will shut off the SWG if it turns on without flow.

Pooldv doesn't need to worry about the syncing due to the 24/7 pump on time. Most pools don't need this type of run time but it makes it simple in pooldv's case.

 

[RESISTENCIA13]

Pooldv,

I have been thinking of replacing my pump as well, but keep getting different opinions as to the cost savings and the time it will take for the pump to pay for itself with savings. How much was your old pump costing you to run? How do you calculate the cost of it....based on the manufacturer info in the box or based on the actual electric bills? I am not handy so I will have my pump installed, overall pricing will be between $1300-1600 in my area. I also have a heat pump and salt system, I was told that both equipment required a minimum water flow to work properly thus sometimes making the a VS pump not so effective as the RPM will still need to be set a higher than optimal savings to allow for the previously mentioned equipment to work properly. Please advice as I know sometimes equipment do not work or save as much as advertised by manufacturer and energy calculator on their website, etc.

 

[pooldv]

I have always had a VS pump. I run my pump at 1100rpm for SWG, skimming and filtering. It uses 150 watts at 1100 rpm. I run my pump at 1950rpm for solar heating and it uses 550 watts.

Calculate run cost as follows
150w x hours run per day divide by 1000 x your cost per kWh x 30 days

150x8 = 1200/1000 = 1.2kWh x 0.1025 = 0.123 x 30 = $3.69 per month to run 8 hours per day
550x8 = 4400/1000 = 4.4kWh x 0.1025 = 0.451 x 30 = $13.53 per month to run 8 hours per day

 

[RESISTENCIA13]

Thanks

I have always had a VS pump. I run my pump at 1100rpm for SWG, skimming and filtering. It uses 150 watts at 1100 rpm. I run my pump at 1950rpm for solar heating and it uses 550 watts.

Calculate run cost as follows
150w x hours run per day divide by 1000 x your cost per kWh x 30 days

150x8 = 1200/1000 = 1.2kWh x 0.1025 = 0.123 x 30 = $3.69 per month to run 8 hours per day
550x8 = 4400/1000 = 4.4kWh x 0.1025 = 0.451 x 30 = $13.53 per month to run 8 hours per day

 

[Tigershark]

timer switches, are there any that you all recommend ? I am going with a VS pump

thanks,
Brian

 

[Texas Splash]

Intermatics have been quite popular for the DIY'er. 101R/M for 110V, and 104M for 220V.

 

[BadOleRoss]

I have been running my pool using Intermatic timers for years and have just wired in my SWG to the same timer. Works great!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I have been running my pool using Intermatic timers for years and have just wired in my SWG to the same timer. Works great!

Same here. I am too cheap to need all that high tech automation, but the Intermatic timer works a charm for us.

 

[pooldv]

Most variable speed pumps have built in timers. They don't need a timer and should be wired directly to the breaker.

A timer for your SWG is good to have though. My pump is wired to the breaker and my SWG is wired to a timer.

 

[chiefwej]

If your old single speed pump was hooked up to a timer, you just power the new VS pump from the unswithched side and the new SWG from the switched side of the timer. That allows the pump to always have power and be controlled by its own onboard timer. The SWG will be switched by the timer that used to control the old pump. Make sure that the SWG is set to be on only when you hav the,pump set to run.

As far as someone's comment that a VS pump may not be optimal due to the flow requirements of other pool devices, that's BS. A VS will always be optimal. You can dial in just the right speed for any task. I love my VS. it's set in the am to run a speed for my infloor system, drop to a slower speed to operate with the SWG during the mid day, but speed up if the solar system calls for heat, then if drops to a very low speed just to provide some extra filtration. Shuts down late at night and starts over again the next morning. That's all done with the internal pump timer.