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Thread: New Pool in Central CA

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    New Pool in Central CA

    So after many years of other construction projects higher on the priority list I am finally starting our pool build, and like every other project in my life I refuse to pay someone to do a project that I'm perfectly capable of doing with some education. Of course with that mentality my projects take slightly longer but I know I will get exactly what I want.

    Ok so here is what is bouncing around in my little brain...I have my shape staked out, generic engineering plans in hand and planning to pull the permit this Friday. Plan is to break ground on the March 31st or April 1st. It also depends on weather. After scouring the internet for countless hours over the last few weeks looking for as much info as possible, I kept seeing this forum and must have spent at least 8hrs going through the site and threads.

    My plan is as follows:
    Excavation-Myself
    Plumbing-Myself
    Rebar-Contractor
    Electrical-Myself
    Gunite-Contractor
    Waterfall-Contractor
    Tile-Myself
    Coping and flatwork-Myself providing I don't do concrete(hoping for travertine but cost will dictate that)


    I am curious if many people on the forum have used dual DE filter systems. I spoke with the local Pentair rep and he was recommending 2 DE filters and 2 VS Pumps. Basically half of the pool would be on one system and the other half is on the other. He initially said to use a single high capacity sand filter but I would prefer to use DE to get the finer filtration not to mention I will be able to run the dual VS pumps at a lower RPM to achieve the 95GPM for an 8hr turnaround. He was concerned with dust in the air because I live in the country, but there isn't any ag near me so I lean toward the DE vs the sand. The size of the our "planned" pool is 52'x30' free form so those are the longest and widest points. Depth would be 7' max and it would have a large shallow area. I estimated it at 41-46k gal. I'll try and post a drawing of the pool with shape and depth in the next couple of days.

    Are the "infloor" cleaners worth the cost for the steps and large shelves only? I find 2 manufacturers. Paramount and Caretaker by Zodiac.
    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    This should be a fun one to watch!

    Check your equipment requirements for the extended warranty. There has been some that says they have to be bought from a dealer AND installed by a "pro". Just something to think about.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Welcome to TFP!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    After scouring the internet for countless hours over the last few weeks looking for as much info as possible, I kept seeing this forum and must have spent at least 8hrs going through the site and threads.
    You've only spent 8 hours reading on TFP??? That's not nearly enough time! j/k. Welcome! Soak up all the knowledge you can from the forum!

    As far as in floor cleaners, a lot of us are robot oriented. Have you considered that option? Also stay away from ozone and Nature 2 mineral systems. The sun provides what you get from ozone and mineral systems put metals into your water which causes staining.
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    I'm still reading 😎..... I'm open to all cleaning options. Just wanted to hear if anyone has had good luck with step and shelf cleaning with the in ground cleaners. Or should I just plumb extra returns on the steps and shelf.

    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    This should be a fun one to watch!

    Check your equipment requirements for the extended warranty. There has been some that says they have to be bought from a dealer AND installed by a "pro". Just something to think about.

    Kim
    Thanks for the heads up. I'll be using a friend that is a licensed electrician come and complete the install of the equipment just so I can say that I had a "qualified" person install their equipment. Luckily I'll also be able to get all the equipment from the local wholesaler at cost from another contractor friend.

    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    I'm not sure where abouts in CA you are (I'm too lazy to google it!) but I think there have been some Cali DIY pools on the forum.
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Welcome to TFP

    First before I forget you need to read this thread: Pool Build - California Dreaming - 3 Years Closer - Page 37 It is one of TFP's epic threads for OBs and the guy who wrote it is responsive to questions from other OBs. Its a Riverside California OB. It takes several hours to read but it is worth every minute.

    A couple of thoughts. You have a very large pool. No a very very large pool. You are in PG&E territory I think. Have you thought about buying stock first? Because with a large pool and two pumps you will notice the power bill going up. Especially with an inground cleaning system. Those systems use your pumps ( the energy hog in the system) to clean the pool. Robots are much much more energy efficient. Why have a VS pump (and you will have 2) if you never run it on low because you are filtering the pool with the cleaning system?

    Pool electrical is not normal electrical. It doesn't always follow the rules and the code is not always clear. For example, Article 280 assumes your light conduit will be filled with water. It requires sheathed cables in lighting conduit. Concepts that are foreign to the rest of the NEC. Download the PDF for Mike Holt's illustrated guide to the NEC Pools 2014. It wasn't coming up when I googled it a few minutes ago. Private message me and I think I have a copy somewhere I can email to you.

    But you need to read Mike Holt and study it several times before doing pool electrical or you and the building inspector will most likely having some unpleasant conversations. Reading the code itself would be helpful too.

    I have no idea of your construction experience so forgive me if I underestimate your abilities.

    Its not clear, do you have a stamped set of plans? If you have a waterfall then you need it on the plans so the rebar contractor can take it into account per the engineering drawings. Study the engineering supplement, it may show specific methods to do things you may not realize were on there and depending on the inspector can result in more unpleasant conversations. Read Spilmar's thread above where he relates some of those conversations.


    So have fun and post lots and lots of pictures -- we like pictures

    Oh my former mother in law lives in Fresno -- maybe I'll come down and Kim will fly out from Florida and we can check out your pool --
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    ellsian's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    gwegan, you are awesome I learn something new every time I read one of your posts helping people.

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Welcome to TFP

    First before I forget you need to read this thread: Pool Build - California Dreaming - 3 Years Closer - Page 37 It is one of TFP's epic threads for OBs and the guy who wrote it is responsive to questions from other OBs. Its a Riverside California OB. It takes several hours to read but it is worth every minute.

    A couple of thoughts. You have a very large pool. No a very very large pool. You are in PG&E territory I think. Have you thought about buying stock first? Because with a large pool and two pumps you will notice the power bill going up. Especially with an inground cleaning system. Those systems use your pumps ( the energy hog in the system) to clean the pool. Robots are much much more energy efficient. Why have a VS pump (and you will have 2) if you never run it on low because you are filtering the pool with the cleaning system?

    Pool electrical is not normal electrical. It doesn't always follow the rules and the code is not always clear. For example, Article 280 assumes your light conduit will be filled with water. It requires sheathed cables in lighting conduit. Concepts that are foreign to the rest of the NEC. Download the PDF for Mike Holt's illustrated guide to the NEC Pools 2014. It wasn't coming up when I googled it a few minutes ago. Private message me and I think I have a copy somewhere I can email to you.

    But you need to read Mike Holt and study it several times before doing pool electrical or you and the building inspector will most likely having some unpleasant conversations. Reading the code itself would be helpful too.

    I have no idea of your construction experience so forgive me if I underestimate your abilities.

    Its not clear, do you have a stamped set of plans? If you have a waterfall then you need it on the plans so the rebar contractor can take it into account per the engineering drawings. Study the engineering supplement, it may show specific methods to do things you may not realize were on there and depending on the inspector can result in more unpleasant conversations. Read Spilmar's thread above where he relates some of those conversations.


    So have fun and post lots and lots of pictures -- we like pictures

    Oh my former mother in law lives in Fresno -- maybe I'll come down and Kim will fly out from Florida and we can check out your pool --
    I have spent the last couple of hours reading that exact thread. I'm on page 29 so still have a bit to go! As far as the power consumption yes PGE definitely sticks it to us. Luckily that was one of my previous projects I did 2 yrs ago. I installed as an OB a 8KW expandable to 12KW solar system knowing that I would be building a pool, they now owe me every year .
    Just so I'm clear I was only considering using the in ground cleaners for the large steps and shelves that are planned. From some of the posts it looks like the robots might do a good job but obviously I don't have that first hand knowledge yet.
    I do have a stamped set of "generic" plans from an engineer. I also have 3 engineering surcharges for 2 different size water features and the freestanding wall for the swim up bar.
    My construction background was mostly as an assistant superintendent on a construction site of high end single family homes in southern CA. I've done lots of side jobs over the years but never a pool. I have installed multiple solar systems for family and friends. Trust me this is a lot for me to tackle but I'm the type that has a "Can Do" attitude. I've definitely screwed up my share of things but that's how we stumble through life and get better. Besides that's why I'm here, for knowledge and support. I'll send an PM for the electrical info thanks for the reply.
    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Indeed this will be fun to watch. I just had my pool installed last fall and the whole time I was telling myself I should have done this myself. I agree that you will get exactly what you want and it should be that way. Good luck and please post pictures.

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    First day of excavation went pretty smooth no surprises in the ground and nothing ripped up. I have some touch-up on the radius's and some trenches left for tomorrow. Then on to plumbing. This is the only item that I'm not real sure If I'm doing it correctly. I will have 2 filtration systems for the pool (maybe overkill but that's just the way I like it!) One will be for the shallow area and in-floor "Dust and Sweep" cleaning system and the other will be plumbed to the deep end. I planned on having 6-7 returns for the deep end system and 3 for the shallow because the in-floor will be using the other portion of the water returning to the pool.

    Below is a link to a youtube time lapse of the excavation and If I can figure out how to post some pictures I'll do that too.
    3 31 16 - YouTube
    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    You might want to make sure you can do the plumbing and electrical without being a licensed contractor, since you are pulling permits.
    Approx 15,000 gallon gunite pool, fiberglass finish. Hayward SP2302VSP, compools solar controller, 6 4x10 "Sealed Air" brand solar panels, Clean and Clear 520 cartridge filter

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickmpower View Post
    You might want to make sure you can do the plumbing and electrical without being a licensed contractor, since you are pulling permits.
    I have never had in issue in the past with any other permit i have pulled. My permit is on different color paper so they know its an "Owner Builder" permit. That's also why they have inspectors to be sure that I follow code.
    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Drones are a wonderful thing!!!

    One counterpoint about the in-floor system is that there is no better way to supply the heated & filtered water to the deepest parts of the pool. As others have pointed out, it makes the overall pool temp very even - and on your large pool that would be a plus.

    I thought because of the drought, DE filters were out in California? The backwashing wastes too much water...I never actually confined that info tho.

    .
    O/B Woodland Hills, CA : O/B12x30 inground with 6x6 10-jet spa, 10,500gal, 6' Baja deck, 42" spillway, All Jandy: 400k heater, 2.7 HP VS pump, 1.5HP booster spa pump, SWG, Intellelink controls, (4) LED lights, cartridge filter and BlueSquareQ360 infloor cleaning system, Eclipse drain, glass tiles, Zanzibar white pebble finish. Broke ground 2/18/2016, completed 8/16/2016. TFT 100 kit.

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo View Post
    Drones are a wonderful thing!!!
    One counterpoint about the in-floor system is that there is no better way to supply the heated & filtered water to the deepest parts of the pool. As others have pointed out, it makes the overall pool temp very even - and on your large pool that would be a plus.

    I thought because of the drought, DE filters were out in California? The backwashing wastes too much water...I never actually confined that info tho.

    .
    Yes they are a great tool when used responsibly.

    Yes I agree with you from what I have read. I would love to install my entire pool with an in-floor but the cost would be ridiculous. I opted for the dust n vac just so my sweep wouldn't get hung up on benches or bar stools.

    I haven't heard of an all out no go on d.e. filtration. I know there are fines for back washing in street and driveway but that's it.

    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Silversquirrel559 View Post
    I have never had in issue in the past with any other permit i have pulled. My permit is on different color paper so they know its an "Owner Builder" permit. That's also why they have inspectors to be sure that I follow code.
    Even electrical? Anyways since you can do all that other stuff I think you could do the waterfall too. There are some good tutorials on youtube and you could make a huge multi tiered one with all that extra dirt.
    Approx 15,000 gallon gunite pool, fiberglass finish. Hayward SP2302VSP, compools solar controller, 6 4x10 "Sealed Air" brand solar panels, Clean and Clear 520 cartridge filter

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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    A few more pictures of the excavation. Definitely more dirt than I thought! After 2 1/2 days of excavation I still some touch up before I move onto plumbing. We decided to add a large bench and made the deep end slightly larger so it set me back about half a day. The steel contractor will not start laying steel until the plumbing is complete and pressurized which I cant say I really blame him. So hopefully I be ready for plumbing on Thursday. More Pictures to follow







    40K Gal, IG Gunite, Wet edge Deep Blue Sea, IC60 SWCG, Dual Pentair C&C 420SqFt Cartridge filters, dual Pentair 3hp VST pumps, 3hp XF VST for waterfall, intellitouch controls

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool in Central CA

    LOVE the pictures!

    Don't blame the steel guy for sure! Best to wait until he knows he will not have to redo or worry about someone else messing up what he did.

    What are you going to do with all of the dirt? That is a LOT of dirt.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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