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Thread: Borates and bats

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    Borates and bats

    I love the bats that live in our neighborhood and help eat the mosquitoes in particular. Last summer they moved, but the colony is thankfully back this year. I know that borates are not good for dogs to drink the water from the pool. The bats skim our pool nightly for water; are my borates at circa 50ppm a danger to them?
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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    Re: Borates and bats

    "In summary, it is inadvisable to use a borate-buffered pool as drinking water for any animal."

    Source

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    Re: Borates and bats

    Thank you so much for your response. I will read through that and make an informed decision.
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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    Re: Borates and bats

    Actually, bats zoom our pool, but I've never seen them drink. I just assumed they were looking for mosquitoes..... we've got a river, about 100 yards away, that is probably easier for them to drink from..... I'll have to watch them more closely.....

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    Re: Borates and bats

    I love to watch them whether I'm in or out of the pool and they do take tiny sips out of the pool as evidenced by concentric rings. I am on a peninsula a mile wide with tidal rivers on either side of which I am five blocks from one.
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Borates and bats

    There are several threads on the use of borates vs consumption by animals. Richard Falks (a.k.a. chem geek), has offered his contributions to many peer reviewed publications and is a valued member of TFP.

    Borates can cause problems in animals, but how much it may effect them is determined by several factors. Such as how much water they drink, how often they drink it and the body weight of dog, cat, bird, bat or human etc.. that drank it.

    here is an interesting link on the subject.
    Borate Toxicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by otter86753 View Post
    Thank you so much for your response. I will read through that and make an informed decision.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Borates and bats

    Thanks Dave. I am torn at the moment as to whether to add any or not. I will do a little more research.
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Borates and bats

    There is a lot of good info on TFP and other places too. Its certainly worth doing the reasearch and try to determine all of the pros and cons and determine your own situation and surroundings before making a decision.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Borates and bats

    Update:

    According to this paper http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/...onNumber:4.2.3 regarding bioaccumlation in birds:
    Pendleton et al. (1995) exposed adult male mallard ducks to a
    dietary concentration of 1600 mg boron/kg for up to 48 days.
    Equilibrium levels were reached between days 2 and 15. Boron
    concentrations were highest in the blood, followed by the brain and
    liver. Boron was rapidly eliminated, with few detectable residues
    after 1 day on a "clean diet." The presence of arsenic (300 mg/kg) in
    the diet slowed the accumulation of boron.

    This dosage was much higher than that tested with dogs in the EPA studies referenced above in the link provided by Divin Dave.

    I am extrapolating from ducks to bats and across species, but I have come to the conclusion that borates are safe for the bats skimming my pool. This is taking into consideration that the level at which dogs saw no adverse effect would equal a 1oz. bat drinking over 1/2 ounce of water and I don't think that any bat is drinking that much water from my pool.

    I can keep my borates (which greatly helped with my PH stability and I noticed an extra "sparkle") without affecting the neighborhood bats skimming my pool for sips of water! We actually aren't putting the solar cover on the pool so the bats can drink...we'll get plenty or swim time soon enough.
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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    Re: Borates and bats

    I just put up a bat box by my pool... none have moved in yet though.

    There would be a lot of research to really know...

    Bats do drink from pools, that's well established, but I also know colonies of bats that are nowhere near water.

    Is it necessary or preference for them to drink, do they get water from bugs (which are quite juicy, as my windshield can attest to)?

    Also knowing what fraction of water they get from drinking is important, and also how much they drink relative to their body weight.

    etc...
    Pool: 16,000 gallons, 16x31, 500SqFt gunite pool, White Pebbletec interior, built by Cody Pools. Pentair Intelliflo VS-3050 pump, Pentair Clean & Clear 420 Cartridge Filter, In-line chlor with Ultra UV, PV3 Infloor cleaning, Pentair Easytouch-P4 control. TF-100
    Spa: 525 Gallons, Coast fiberglass spa of unknown vintage and suspect previous care with a 2-speed main pump and a blower motor, both 4HP. 3-step bromine sanitized.

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