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Thread: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    My AG 18' round pool instructions say to level the ground, then place the 2x8x16' blocks INTO the ground, level with the ground. They want the bottom tracks to touch the ground. This way the whole bottom railing circumference of the pool would be on the ground.

    Then, they want a 2 inch sand base for the pool bottom. Then they go into the cove instructions etc...

    OK.

    Then I had a question to ask customer support about my pool. After speaking with them, they said do NOT place the blocks into the ground. Place the blocks ON the ground after leveling the ground. btw, I was transferred to an installer who was from the company. I respect his opinions since he does this daily. Anyway, he said to place the blocks on the ground, THEN place the 2 inches of sand up to the level of the blocks. He also mentioned shoring up the outside of the pool wall so the sand does not go out of the bottoms of the wall, or something to that effect.

    OK Sounds good, except... How can I place the sand and tamp it down while the bottom tracks are in place? In this second option, would I not want to go all the way out to the 20ft mark of the circle with the sand to make it an even, non eroding, flat, level plain? Is it not neccessary to have a "sturdy", tamped down area directly underneath the wall bottom brackets, or is it good enough to just have the blocks holding the uprights to be sturdy? Sure, the uprights are holding up everything, but it seems odd the walls have the weakest area underneath them in this case. They would be on top of sand, and not even tamped sand at that. The first version would have them on top of the virgin ground.


    One more point to my question to the installer. I had called him to ask if the 2 inches was absolutely neccessary, because of the height of the liner. If you add one inch, then the liner would be too short? If you added three inches, then it would be too long? Is this an exact science? It's a beaded liner btw. "J- bead" or something like that. The ones that snap in place. I was just worried about the height of the sand and the liner height to match each other. Then he gave me these other instructions. I almost feel like calling back to ask "Are you sure....?" Please help!
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    Oh, my my.

    The blocks on a round pool need only be patio pavers, 2" x 12" blocks set at ground level. Meaning they are set 2" into the ground. The rails must sit on firm, level ground, and it must be perfectly round. If you use sand for any part of your leveling you are asking for trouble. The sand should be piled in the center of the pool and spread out only after the wall is installed.

    The wall will not go into bottom rails that are full of sand. Do yourself a favor and keep the sand away from the rails until the wall is installed.

    You can come in from the bottom rail a foot or so and dish the base out a couple of inches if you want to. There is no exact science as to how the beaded liner will fit. Some are to small, which is great, stretch them in for a nice tight fit. But many are just way to big, I pull those over the wall, slap some coping on them and call them an overlap liner. Either way I make them look nice.

    OK, so more questions are fine, and pictures a must. Best of luck, Dennis
    Pro pool installer for over 35 years
    Shadebuilder.com

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis
    Oh, my my.

    The blocks on a round pool need only be patio pavers, 2" x 12" blocks set at ground level. Meaning they are set 2" into the ground. The rail must sit on firm, level ground, and it must be perfectly round. If you use sand far any part of you leveling you are asking for trouble. The sand should be piled in the center of the pool and spread out only after the wall is installed.

    The wall will not go into bottom rails that are full of sand. Do yourself a favor and keep the sand away from the rails until the wall is installed.

    You can come in from the bottom rail a foot or so and dish the base out a couple of inches if you want to. There is no exact science as to how the beaded liner will fit. Some are to small, which is great, stretch them in for a nice tight fit. But many are just way to big, I pull those over the wall, slap some coping on them and call them an overlap liner. Either way I make them look nice.

    OK, so more questions are fine, and pictures a must. Best of luck, Dennis


    Wow. Now I'm back to using the instructions. What you wrote above is what my instructions say.

    There are some issues though. I got a beaded liner in hopes of not having to disconnect the top rails of the pool if/when I needed to replace the liner.

    Also, what I mentioned before with the height of the liner. The company offers 48, 52, AND 54 inch liners. I have a 54" pool height and assuming they gave me the correct beaded liner, it would fit properly. That is also what the installer said "They will give you the right size liner for your pool." Fine, BUT.... He says to have the bottom of the pool EVEN with the top of the blocks. You and the directions say to have the bottom of the pool 2" ABOVE the blocks. Somewhere the liner is going to be too long or too short, and I really don't want to make a (more expensive/supposedly more convenient) snap-bead beaded liner into an overlap liner. If I have to in a pinch, I probably would, but is this how this pool stuff works? There's got to be another way.

    Btw, I do agree with placing the bottom rails ON the ground, being held up by the ground. It does make more sense, but it's the height of the liner issue now. If it doesn't fit, and I call the company back, I'll get the "Did you do what I told you to do?" question. ha!

    Perhaps I need a 52" liner instead of the 54" I have? Is there a way to measure it now before the install in a couple of weeks? Does the liner have a seem at the bottom. If so, should it be that size or does it stretch to go to that size? ARGGGG!!!!

    "Hey, let's get a pool!" .... ARGGGGGG!!!!!
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    I got this from the liner manufacturer's website.

    Q – What is the wall depth of a beaded/unibead liner?

    A – 48” measures 43-½ in. and a 52” measures 46 ½ in.

    -

    So, this tells me I have a 46.5 inch liner. hmmm. My pool height is 54". I'm only using a foam pool cove, which is about 3 inches high, instead of the 6 - 8" high sand cove they suggest, if making a cove with sand.

    Looks like either way I go, I'll be OK in terms of height of the liner. I will be going with the blocks INTO the ground and having the bottom brackets for the pool walls sit ON the ground. That is the more sensible way of doing it.

    Thank you for the confirmation.

    Any other tips before I proceed would be welcomed. lol


    I may still call the manufacturer and ask them about the height. It's wierd that they give you 3 options for wall height when choosing the liner, then they only have these two sizes available. A call to them won't hurt. thanks again.
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    Apparently tech support is not getting back to me. It's been two days and two phone calls. Does anyone know the answer to the above question? I'll make it concise.

    Can a 54 inch beaded liner fit on the bead of a 52 inch high wall, and be snug/tight or whatever it needs to be?

    The reason I'm asking because the store I bought it from gave me different directions as the instructions the liner came with. Following the store's directions, the wall would be 54 inches high. I don't want to NOT listen to them and have it come out wrong.

    If i follow the written instructions, the wall would be 52 inches high .

    I may still have to call them back and ask again.
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    I've got my questions answered, in case anyone is interested. I know people read threads and may learn form them. I know I do.

    Yes, there is a difference between a 52" and 54" liner.

    Yes, like mentioned above, you DO have to countersink the blocks INTO the ground and make them flush with the ground. You can not have them ON the ground. The pool company I purchased the pool from were amazed at how their installer could have told me that!! Oh well. He sounded very upset. oops...

    1.5 inches of sand should be enough to place on top of the ground after everything is leveled.

    I''m all set now. That wasn't too bad. I'm glad I came here to ask and glad Dennis, above set me straight. Thank you!!

    The liner company still hasn't called me back. No need anymore, but it's still not good service.

    Thanks for the replies.
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    Sounds like everything is going good. What we know for sure is this, the blocks have to be set at ground level. You must have at least a foot of level ground to support the pool and the cove. If you want to dish the center a little to allow for the sand that's fine. The difference in how it will make the liner fit is little to none.

    We had a store some time back that insisted on selling beaded liners with all of their pools. After a few awful looking installs we started having them order 48" liners for their 52" wall pools and they fit perfectly. When they went with a new supplier that did not want to make that substitution all the liners became overlap.

    Vinyl has unbelievable stretching abilities when it is 115 in the shade. When installing an expandable liner this worked for us, with a beaded liner it did not.

    Other climates will have much different results. hope all goes well, Dennis
    Pro pool installer for over 35 years
    Shadebuilder.com

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    I wonder how the 1.5 inches of sand came into play. I was first told "1 - 1.5" then he said "Better go with 1.5"

    I'm placing a foam cove on there as well. I see that the foam coves are a bit smaller than the sand coves would be if they are installed.

    The order of install is blocks into the ground- walls, foam voce- 1.5 inches of sand- happy bottom.

    Seriously, it doesn't say anywherre in the instructions about 1/5 or 2 inches or any type of inches of sand. How does one know how deep if they don't call tech support like I did? I did view their video on AG pool installation, but it was a little vague and definietly didn't say how high the sand should be.

    I'm wondering how the sand will fit ON the foam cove. It's a rather small cove(maybe 3 inches, I haven't measured it) and I wonder how the foam will react with the sand where they meet.

    Anyway, I will follow those instructions. thanks
    18' x 54" Round AG 7500 gallon w/small prefab 2-piece fandeck
    Waterways 200sf Cartridge Filter, 1.5 hp 2-speed pump. 2" pvc piping
    Pool Pilot Total Control swg w/acid tank feeder
    Pool Rover Jr., BBB, TF 100 test kit

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: I'm getting two different instructions for blocks/columns.

    Hey Lazy, there is a pretty good how to article here.

    http://www.shadebuilder.com/Beaded-Line ... ation.html

    Beaded liners are not an exact science, no one can tell you how much sand you will need on any given day to make the liner fit perfectly.

    The sand going up the foam cove is a good question. Not more than half way. Leave some of the cove showing above the sand.

    With an overlap liner, you can smooth the sand and get out of the pool. The liner is completely installed from outside the pool. This means the pool is full of water and the sand well packed before anyone gets in the pool. With beaded liners this is not the recommended way of installation. Beaded liners are meant to be installed from inside the pool. This only works well with a base that is extremely firm, one that will not show footprints. A sand base on a reinstall is usually firmly packed, as are installs done on solid foam or a few other types of pool bases.

    In order to avoid footprints I did all of my new pool beaded liner installs from outside of the pool. When the water was near the edge I would make a simple decision, pull the liner over the wall and use the coping, or snap it into the beaded groove. To me it was an easy choice, I gave the customer a smooth bottom and a wrinkle free installation either way.

    Let us know how it goes, Dennis
    Pro pool installer for over 35 years
    Shadebuilder.com

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