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Thread: question about outgassing

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    question about outgassing

    hey, been absorbing as much of the great info as i can, but i saw something about outgassing that i didn't understand.

    new pool (finished in december and opening it up now), new pool owner. the builder started the chemicals off last week with salt, stabilizer, baking soda, and bleach. so now i'm waiting for my tftest100 kit to be delivered so i can start managing things. here are the test results (pool store), fwiw.

    FC 9.0
    PH 8.2
    TA 110
    CYA 60

    anyway, water temp is 59 and i have a solar blanket on it to see how long it takes to get the temp up to 70 or so (and make sure the heat pump is working). when i started reading threads about keeping pools open thru the winter, i saw some talk about taking the cover off to allow outgassing.

    is removing the blanket occasionally something i need to worry about while i'm trying to figure out these initial steps? thanks!
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: question about outgassing

    Welcome to TFP!!

    I would be worrying about getting the pH in line more than I would worry about taking the cover off to breathe. have you added acid to bring that pH down into line?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Thanks for the response!

    I haven't added anything yet. Wanted to get my own test kit first, and the pool guy didnt seem worried about the number.

    Is it bad enough that i should go ahead and add acid now?
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by agnathra View Post
    Thanks for the response!

    I haven't added anything yet. Wanted to get my own test kit first, and the pool guy didnt seem worried about the number.

    Is it bad enough that i should go ahead and add acid now?
    Yes.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by agnathra View Post
    Wanted to get my own test kit first, and the pool guy didn't seem worried about the number.
    We want you to have your own test kit and the response from the "pool guy" is why. As YS pointed pointed out, the pH needs attention now.

    Of all the tests, the pH is fine with a $5 test kit from WalMart.

    But, moving forward you want a TF100 test kit. That should give you what you need for a couple of years normal use.

    The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want. Even then it is a little short on the reagent & powder for the FAS/DPD test.

    I also have the SpeedStir and Sample Sizer. They speed testing and accuracy.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Thanks for the info. I ordered the tftest100 with borate test and speedstir over the weekend....just waiting on it now.

    One other noob question, does the temp of the water skew test results? Pool guy said any results below 60 degrees were suspect.
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by agnathra View Post
    Thanks for the info. I ordered the tftest100 with borate test and speedstir over the weekend....just waiting on it now.

    One other noob question, does the temp of the water skew test results? Pool guy said any results below 60 degrees were suspect.
    I hope not or my stuff is skewed all "winter" since my pool stays "open"...
    Christina
    ~14,000gal 14x30 IG vinyl, Hayward DE4820 filter (everything else is too old to read lol), TF100 Test Kit, TFPC method
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by agnathra View Post
    Pool guy said any results below 60 degrees were suspect.
    I guess that works out because we suspect any testing done by the pool guy.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Water temperature will affect the CSI, and thus what pH levels might be appropriate for your pool during that time.
    Also, for the CYA test you should let the pool water come up to room temperature. It doesn't have a huge effect, but still recommended.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
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    Re: question about outgassing

    thanks for all the info. the level of support here puts even avsforum to shame, and that's saying a lot!

    anyway, per the calculator yesterday i added 24 oz of muriatic acid to bring down my ph from 8.2 to 7.6. well, this morning i checked again and ph looks around 7.0 or less. i'm still using the crappy test strips until my kit gets here, so it's hard to tell, but if definitely seems a lot lower than expected.

    also, FC is showing 10+ (highest the strip can measure). based on what i'm reading about slamming, i'm hoping my PH measurement is being thrown off by the high FC. at any rate i'm afraid to correct further until i get some good measurements.

    so my plan is, i turned off the swg and took the solar blanket off to hopefully burn off some FC and get a better test tonight. pool temp is 69 and air temp will be sunny and in the 70's. i'll also aerate with the water feature (slide) since i think that can help.

    does that sound ok? any idea how much FC i should lose? (pool is clean and clear)

    thanks!
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Just a reminder to not test PH when you are at slam levels or FC 10 and above


    Christina
    ~14,000gal 14x30 IG vinyl, Hayward DE4820 filter (everything else is too old to read lol), TF100 Test Kit, TFPC method
    POOL SCHOOL, ABC'S of WATER CHEMISTRY, POOL MATH, SUPPORT TFP!!, TEST KIT!

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Are you sure about the volume of your pool?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    Are you sure about the volume of your pool?
    relatively. i'm estimating how much the rounded corners and the slant in the deep end are taking out of the total volume, but the rest of the geometry is right....at least i hope.

    here are the details if someone wants to check. 16 x 34 rectangle, shallow end is 4' long, 3' deep (192 cuft), deep end is 8' long and 5.5' deep (704), so the middle slope is 22' long and avg 4.25' deep (1496). total is 2392*7.48 = 17892.16 gallons. but eyeballing the round corners and sloped sides of the deep end make me feel ok with 17k as an estimate.
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Re: question about outgassing

    so i got my test kit today. as far as i'm concerned the speedstir paid for itself on the first FC test. if you don't have one, get one!

    FC was 13.5 at lunch, so hopefully tonight it will be lower without the SWG running. and even if the PH test isn't that reliable given the FC, i did one anyway and got 7.5, which makes me feel a lot better .
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by agnathra View Post
    so i got my test kit today. as far as i'm concerned the speedstir paid for itself on the first FC test. if you don't have one, get one!

    .
    LOL, yeah....we hear that a lot around here.

    One way I narrowed down my pool volume was by using pool math to tell me how much FC to add (or MA) to get a desired result. If it was less my pool is probably a bit larger. If it was more than expected, my volume must be a bit smaller. If it was spot-on, my volume is just what i thought it was. Low tech, I know....but at least its not more math.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

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    Re: question about outgassing

    so after leaving the pool exposed to the sun all day, mid 70's, FC didn't go down?

    so i guess either i'm not testing well, or SWG is still on, or some other kind of sorcery is going on.

    Looking the SWG, it has + and - buttons to go up/down 20% in use (relative to time the pump is running). the buttons aren't lit up (so i think 0%), and if i press the + button, the 20% lights up. seems idiot proof, but i can be creative i suppose.

    on the testing, 10 ml in the cylinder, 1 heaping little blue spoon full of stuff, start spinning, drop a drop in every 2 or so seconds, 29 drops later it turns clear.

    does that sound right?
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by agnathra View Post
    so after leaving the pool exposed to the sun all day, mid 70's, FC didn't go down?

    so i guess either i'm not testing well, or SWG is still on, or some other kind of sorcery is going on.

    Looking the SWG, it has + and - buttons to go up/down 20% in use (relative to time the pump is running). the buttons aren't lit up (so i think 0%), and if i press the + button, the 20% lights up. seems idiot proof, but i can be creative i suppose.

    on the testing, 10 ml in the cylinder, 1 heaping little blue spoon full of stuff, start spinning, drop a drop in every 2 or so seconds, 29 drops later it turns clear.

    does that sound right?
    29 drops would be 14.5 with the 10ml sample. Is there any way to power down the SWCG to be sure it's off like unplug it?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: question about outgassing

    I am in northern SC so probably getting the same amount of sun as you and I am only burning .5 fc per day right now. So its not burning off that fast yet.

    Mark, Pool: 30,000 gallon, IG Vinyl, Pentair Superflo Variable Speed 1.5 HP pump, Hayward S220T Sand Filter, Taylor k-2006 Test kit with speedstir. Dolphin Nautilus Plus.
    Hot Tub: Hot Spring Grandee 450 Gallons, Ace System (Salt water Chlorine Generator) Dichlor / Bleach method. Taylor K1766 Salt Test.

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    Re: question about outgassing

    If your solar cover is on, you're not swimming in the pool, temp is cool, it's March... you're not going to be losing much FC each day. Before closing last fall, I was losing less than 0.5 ppm per day, dosing about once every 5 days to bring the FC up 2-2.5 ppm.

    Typically, a high FC will skew the pH test high, but not always depending on the reagents used. pH at 7.0 is nothing to be alarmed about and 7.5 is fine. I'd give it a few days with the SWG off then post a full set of test results with your TF-100.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: question about outgassing

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    If your solar cover is on, you're not swimming in the pool, temp is cool, it's March... you're not going to be losing much FC each day. Before closing last fall, I was losing less than 0.5 ppm per day, dosing about once every 5 days to bring the FC up 2-2.5 ppm.

    Typically, a high FC will skew the pH test high, but not always depending on the reagents used. pH at 7.0 is nothing to be alarmed about and 7.5 is fine. I'd give it a few days with the SWG off then post a full set of test results with your TF-100.
    thanks for all the info. FINALLY after a couple of days of sun (cover is off), FC went down to 10, so i'm not paranoid that something weird is going on. and ph has been steady at 7.5 since tuesday, once i got a good test kit.

    so i'll do a full battery of tests tomorrow and try to figure out where to set the SWG rate, and how often to run the pump. based on the advice i've seen here, i was thinking of starting at 4 hrs per day on the pump, and SWG at whatever % to keep FC up, and increasing pump time if it's not staying clean or the SWG can't keep FC high enough. does that sound right?
    17k g IG vinyl pool, hayward c3030 cart filter (325 sqft), hayward tristar 3207ee 3/4 HP pump, pentair intellichlor IC20 SWG, aquacomfort act1100 heat pump

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