Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: At my wits end!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    At my wits end!

    In advance, thank you for all the helpful responses I know I will receive.

    Pool chemistry

    PH 7.0
    FC 3.5
    CH 350
    TA 90
    CYA 45

    The back story....my pool had some trouble with metal staining (due to high chlorine and high Ph (?)) after I shocked at the end of last season due to some algae (got rid of algae beautifully). Then I performed the ascorbic acid treatment to remove the metal stains and it worked beautifully. I brought Chl back up slowly and pool looked crystal clear and lovely all winter long. Now that spring has sprung here in Florida, I have turned on the passive solar and pool is warming up nicely. There are a few spots (very few) of green algae. Vivid green. Easily brushed off. Due to pool warming up? Also, AND OF MOST CONCERN is some of the metal staining has started to reappear. To avoid the metal stains reappearing I have kept pH low and added sequestrant (Purple Stuff) weekly. Why are they reappearing? Not really bad yet but AGH! After the pool had been so beautifully white and stain free.

    My confusion......my levels all seem about right....I know CYA and FC are low but I have done that to keep algae at bay -- they are still within advisable levels.....and shouldn't I be keeping them on the low end to avoid the metals restaining pool? What am I doing wrong? What should I shoot for chemically to keep algae from forming and keep the metals from restaining pool? THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    Re: At my wits end!

    "I know CYA and FC are low but I have done that to keep algae at bay"

    sorry...meant to say "
    I know CYA and FC are low but I have done that to keep STAINING at bay"
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,975

    Re: At my wits end!

    Hello and welcome to another TFP weekend. It is true that for some sequesrants, they seem to work better when the pH is a little lower, and FC can influence staining at times, but you certainly have two issues going on - algae and metals.

    First algae .... let's confirm .. you have a salt water generator correct? Your sig says saltwater. If so, then your CYA should be 70-80, no question. The higher CYA will have no bearing on the metal, only protect your FC. So if your CYA was at 70, then yes, your FC would be at the minimum. But right now (as you already know) you're on the low end, so I would adjust those as necessary in the future. For now though, it sounds like you still have signs of algae, and that requires a SLAM. Nothing else...just SLAM. Do that, and pass that first, before re-attacking the metals. You cannot do both at the same time.

    Once the water is 100% algae-free and you pass all 3 SLAM requirements, that's when you are in the best position to apply the right sequesrant and adjust FC/pH for optimal performance. You may have already read our metals help info from the home page, but I suspect you'll receive much more metals input as this thread continues.

    For now ... SLAM - get rid of the algae. Then we can really get specific with the metals.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Southeast, PA
    Posts
    42

    Re: At my wits end!

    Sequestrant needs to be continually added in order for it to do its job. Unfortunately it's like a revolving door which is why it's better to take preventative measures to try to ensure metals don't get into your pool. I'm sure the experts will be a long to help you with your other issues. You sound like you have a pretty good grip on things!
    Coming soon: 16x35 14,000 Gal. Freeform IG Fiberglass, Aquarite SWG, 425 Sq. Ft. Cartridge Filter, 250K "H" Series, 1.5 HP Pump

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    Re: At my wits end!

    Thank you for your replies! Yes, I do have a SWG.

    SLAMing is just what I wanted to avoid. THe algae are so few and far between -- really just three nickel sized dots...still need to SLAM? and they have not returned.... I want to avoid slaming as that will cause the metals to come out again, correct? No way to avoid the metals staining the pool with high chlorine levels, correct?

    I do add the sequestrant weekly.

    thanks for your help.
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,975

    Re: At my wits end!

    Unfortunately, I suspect you will need to SLAM, however before doing so, you can do an overnight test to validate per Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT). If you lose more than 1ppm of FC overnight, you know the SLAM is a must.

    Once you're past the algae/SLAM issue, you can treat the water again for metals. Before doing so, I would suggest sending "Swampwoman" a PM if she doesn't see this thread and reply. Much experience with metal management, various tactics, and person experience with the various metal products.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,975

    Re: At my wits end!

    Of course if you do have to SLAM, don't raise the CYA now, stay at 50 and use bleach based on that CYA to reach SLAM/shock level of 20 FC. After the SLAM, increase the CYA to help keep your SWG happy and SWG protected.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,495

    Re: At my wits end!

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Just to agree with the others, if you see algae, you have to SLAM. Just because you don't see it other places doesn't mean its nmot there.

    Follow the full SLAM instructions, no shortcuts because you only have a "little" algae.

    Now, were are the metals coming from?

    Oh, can you update your location. I will give you different advice depending on which stage and there are cities named Gainsville in FL, GA, VA, MO, NY, AL and a few others.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,975

    Re: At my wits end!

    Oh, and gainesville5, I did shoot Swampwoman a quick PM to take a look at this thread later. That should help give you more metals info.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    Re: At my wits end!

    Thank you all once again.

    I am in Gainesville Fl. And speaking of north/central florida I found this interesting thread on TFP

    CuLator Metal Removal

    discussing the iron being bound up in a bacteria not in the water at all! Interesting......

    I believe the metal came from an iron weight I held onto so that I could stay on the bottom of the pool to scrap off black algae last year?! possible? (in retrospect DUMB idea. but it did keep me down so I could scrap off the algae! never had the problem prior to that. Or could it be getting in from my metal pool enclosure via rain?

    thank you fro PMing Swampwoman.
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,975

    Re: At my wits end!

    Metal could be form something left in the water, but not so much the rain. Most get metal from their local water. Have you ever taken a sample to the pool store (from the hose) just to see what they show? Might not be a bad idea. As for the algae, bleach and simple scrubbing via a pole brush will suffice. No more underwater adventures for you.

    So while you are preparing for a SLAM, you can read-up on those metal pages. You should hear from SW in the near future.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    Re: At my wits end!

    Metal not from the rain leaching out metal from the metal pool enclosure? why would I not have a problem with metals for years and now I do? And I thought that the black algae need to be physically scraped with a knife to expose it to the chlorine for it to work? Are you letting me off the hook for bringing that iron weight into the water with me ? I have never had my hose water tested. Will do. So many questions......thank you for taking the time to reply to all these posts.
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Texas Splash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    South-Central Texas, Marion/San Antonio
    Posts
    12,975

    Re: At my wits end!

    ha ha. No worries. We'll get you on track. No water issues too difficult for TFP. First things first though .... eliminating algae. More to follow. Have a great weekend.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    Re: At my wits end!

    will do the OCLT test this evening! thank you fro suggesting that.

    I know I will likely need to SLAM but then the pool will be metal stained again and then I will have to take the pool down to zero chlorine to do the AA procedure again. AND costly. A NEVER ENDING cycle! AGH!
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    'burbs of Augusta, Georgia
    Posts
    6,488

    Re: At my wits end!

    Do you know where the metals are coming from? Do you fill from a well? Would it be possible to get water trucked in that is metal free?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Our pool build--> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard Skippy's Cheap Pool Cooler -->Skippy's New Fountain

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    8,495

    Re: At my wits end!

    Quote Originally Posted by gainesville5 View Post
    I am in Gainesville Fl.
    Thanks, but please update your location in your profile so it shows up on all of your posts.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Swampwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,537

    Re: At my wits end!

    Hi there!
    While I've had a lot of experience with metals in a non-swg pool, I want to be careful that my advice actually suits a SWG pool.

    But one thing caught my attention right away -- you're using Jack's "purple stuff" which is indeed for salt pools but its the "Magenta" stuff is also listed as a stain fighter...maybe call Jacks Magic to see if they can lend insight into which is best for your case. I can't quite understand the distinction EDIT: I just read the directions on Purple and indeed it as phosphonic acid, so ignore my comment immediately below

    Neither use phosphonic acid, which is what the products I have success with use...and that may be to avoid the chance of fouling your swg plate. (Eg I have used javks pink with success.)

    With that said, your first order of business is absolutely to SLAM and I do not want the metals issue to distract you from that, because you will need to first slam and pass the OCLT before treating for metals or you will have wasted the product at a not inconsiderable expense.

    But first: if you could identify whether or not there is iron in your source water, there might be some things that could mitigate your next steps.

    Eg. If you have to Slam anyway, which you do, and you find that there is not likely any metal in your source water (since you didnt have problems for years) then the metal was introduced either from algicides you might have used (you said you had black algae) or fertilizer spill, etc.

    If this were the case, diluting the water metal level by a partial drain and refilling might get you under the level where metals are problematic (typically less than .3 ppm) Doing this might also prevent slam-staining.

    Since you're about to slam, it may go quicker if you swap out some of the water first. But if you're on a well, all bets are off and there's likely no point in doing so.

    Another note that doesn't help much now but will help upstream is to ensure that your cya is high enough and your chlorine production high enough together to avoid algae in the future. Keeping cya low in no way helps the metal issue, as you now know. And if properly sequestered, there's also no need to keep FC especially low despite what mfgs might say...I run my FC between 5 and 7 and my sequestrant works just fine

    So, determine if you want to change out some water before you slam. If you're city water, in your shoes, that's what I'd do. If you want to be sure, you could take some tap water into a pool store and test.

    If you think you used an algaecide before the staining trouble began and you want to try to identify whether you're dealing with copper or iron, you could try taking your pool water in for metal testing and/or use jacks stain ID kit to test any stains that result from slamming, if any (there's a chance your sequestrant to date will hold and you won't necessarily get a lot of staining post slam, especially if you start with the ph low and then sequester as soon as you're done the slam.)

    Lastly, after your slam, you may not need to do AA at all. A doube dose of Jack's Magenta PURPLE may see you in the clear, so play it by ear.

    The key will be to monitoring your ph and maintaining " enough" sequestrant when your done...sometimes you need to use more than the bottle says if your ppm are higher.

    Hope that gives you some options going forward. Best wishes!

    Ps if you are on well, and want to avoid further metal concentration in the future, you can do what I did, which is switch the pool spigot to softened water. That's gotten me down to under .5 -- I still need to sequester but not as much or as often.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    gainesville, FL
    Posts
    11

    Re: At my wits end!

    THANK YOU SWAMPWOMAN! what a thorough response. I greatly appreciate it.

    Pool passed OCLT test! I am thinking then that slamming is not necessary?)
    Will get hose water tested for metals today at pool store.
    Will raise CYA.

    No algaecide added to pool
    No fertilizer.
    Then how did metals get into pool?
    Rain leaching metals from pool screen?
    Or iron weight that I held so that I could scrap black algae from bottom?

    This all is especially frustrating because for 8 years all I had to do to pool was add some muriatic acid once a week and some salt after it rained and my pool was always sparkly clean and beautiful.
    Marcite/Gunite Pool 13594 Gallons.
    Pentair Sta-Rite Cartridge Filter
    Saltwater
    TF-100

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •