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Thread: Stuck on filter decision

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    Nursenini's Avatar
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    Stuck on filter decision

    I have read all the stuff on the various types of filters but I'm STILL not sure what to go with...
    Sand or DE...Sand or DE...

    PB wants us to go with sand.
    I'm leaning toward DE for its finer filtration. I just don't want anything that's going to be a a pain in the rear and give me problems. If it's just a matter of cleaning, that's not an issue. Replacing DE sounds like it would be easier than replacing sand- I sure don't want to haul sand bags. PB says to just hire out the sand replacement (of course-THEY provide that service for a fee).
    PB says people complain about DE and hate it. I haven't gotten any specifics on the complaints, just that there are complaints.

    Would love for folks to weigh in with your experience with your filter.

    Why do you like it or hate it?

    When it's time to replace it would you go with the same thing again or are you planning to get a different type as soon as you can?

    I really need help with this. I'm very torn.

    Thank you!
    Denise-TFP Guide
    IG 13.6x30 gunite, Radiant Fusion Topaz, 3.6/5.6/4, 14100 gal, 2 skimmer, 4 Hayward LED lights (pool & spa), Hayward Echostar VSP, 2 future fire bowls, raised beam wall w/ scuppers,7x7 raised spa, DE Progrid70, SWG Hayward Goldline, OmniLogic, Hayward 400K BTU heater, stamped colored deck, Dolphin Discovery robotic cleaner, TF100 test kit, Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Im curious why no cartridge filter in your decision making? Here in CA because of the "drought" - cartridge is the easy choice because it saves water from no backwashing .....and it kinda settles in-between Sand and DE clarity?
    O/B Woodland Hills, CA : O/B12x30 inground with 6x6 10-jet spa, 10,500gal, 6' Baja deck, 42" spillway, All Jandy: 400k heater, 2.7 HP VS pump, 1.5HP booster spa pump, SWG, Intellelink controls, (4) LED lights, cartridge filter and BlueSquareQ360 infloor cleaning system, Eclipse drain, glass tiles, Zanzibar white pebble finish. Broke ground 2/18/2016, completed 8/16/2016. TFT 100 kit.

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    ive heard of you having to pay a fee to dispose of DE
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo View Post
    Im curious why no cartridge filter in your decision making? Here in CA because of the "drought" - cartridge is the easy choice because it saves water from no backwashing .....and it kinda settles in-between Sand and DE clarity?

    I have a friend who has a cartridge filter and absolutely hates it. I was just taking her word for it when she warned me against cartridge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sever View Post
    ive heard of you having to pay a fee to dispose of DE
    Thanks for the heads up but that's not an issue here.
    Denise-TFP Guide
    IG 13.6x30 gunite, Radiant Fusion Topaz, 3.6/5.6/4, 14100 gal, 2 skimmer, 4 Hayward LED lights (pool & spa), Hayward Echostar VSP, 2 future fire bowls, raised beam wall w/ scuppers,7x7 raised spa, DE Progrid70, SWG Hayward Goldline, OmniLogic, Hayward 400K BTU heater, stamped colored deck, Dolphin Discovery robotic cleaner, TF100 test kit, Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma

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    twinkiesmommy2009's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    We're going with a cartridge. Did they not give you that option?


    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    In filters, size matters. The larger the filter, the less often it needs service. If you've read up on the filters you know that in terms of maintaining, sand is the easiest, DE is by far the most labor to maintain. Cartridge is in between. If I had it to do over, I think I would go with an oversized cartridge filter. You should never have to add or replace sand in a filter, so there is no hauling sand. But a sand filter does waste the most backwash water. In a SWG pool that can mean occasional salt and chemical additions to rebalance your water.

    My DE filter is backwashed and recharged with DE every couple months, and gets a full breakdown service twice a year. It is messy and time consuming. With a sand filter you just backwash then turn it back on. No recharging. Cartridge just gets a breakdown cleaning a couple times a year, but isn't as messy since no DE. Also, no handling a carcinogenic (DE), and no backwashing and no recharging.

    As far as how fine they filter, the real difference in water quality is chemistry much more than filtration. Any one can produce a sparkling clear pool.
    chiefwej
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Thanks for the feedback, Chief!
    When you say messy and time consuming, is it just the twice yearly cleaning that's messy and time consuming?

    The options on filters I have been given are:

    30" sand filter
    Progrid 70 DE filter (I'm sure there's a cartridge choice if I wanted one)

    Are these considered oversized enough for my less than 17,000gal pool?
    Denise-TFP Guide
    IG 13.6x30 gunite, Radiant Fusion Topaz, 3.6/5.6/4, 14100 gal, 2 skimmer, 4 Hayward LED lights (pool & spa), Hayward Echostar VSP, 2 future fire bowls, raised beam wall w/ scuppers,7x7 raised spa, DE Progrid70, SWG Hayward Goldline, OmniLogic, Hayward 400K BTU heater, stamped colored deck, Dolphin Discovery robotic cleaner, TF100 test kit, Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    I have a big cartridge filter and a lot of trees. I have to clean it at least twice in spring and twice in fall, sometimes I get lucky and it is three times. And if you get algae you will have to clean it every day or two at the most. It is a fair amount of work and uses quite a bit of water to clean the cartridges. Minimum time is 30 or 40 minutes and an hour is probably better. My next filter will be the biggest sand filter on the planet!

    I don't think the water clarity thing matters much with TFPC. I'm pretty sure that it is not possible for my water to be any clearer.
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    I have a big cartridge filter and a lot of trees. I have to clean it at least twice in spring and twice in fall, sometimes I get lucky and it is three times. And if you get algae you will have to clean it every day or two at the most. It is a fair amount of work and uses quite a bit of water to clean the cartridges. Minimum time is 30 or 40 minutes and an hour is probably better. My next filter will be the biggest sand filter on the planet!

    I don't think the water clarity thing matters much with TFPC. I'm pretty sure that it is not possible for my water to be any clearer.
    We have a full sun yard but our neighbors on either side have trees that drop some trash during the fall but it hasn't been bad historically, or maybe I just never noticed. Watch it be a pain now....
    My friend with the cartridge filter inherited it with the new home she bought. Pool came with it. She had previously had a sand filter at her other home. She can't wait to replace this filter as soon as she can. Her biggest piece of advice to me was not to get cartridge.

    Thank you for the input, pooldv!
    Denise-TFP Guide
    IG 13.6x30 gunite, Radiant Fusion Topaz, 3.6/5.6/4, 14100 gal, 2 skimmer, 4 Hayward LED lights (pool & spa), Hayward Echostar VSP, 2 future fire bowls, raised beam wall w/ scuppers,7x7 raised spa, DE Progrid70, SWG Hayward Goldline, OmniLogic, Hayward 400K BTU heater, stamped colored deck, Dolphin Discovery robotic cleaner, TF100 test kit, Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Sand filters are the least work, but do use up the most water with all the backwashing, other than that they are the lowest maintenance, take the top off and deep clean every few years, and that is it, no need to ever change sand. Don't buy into that sales pitch from the pool store, it is simply almost never needed, about the only need to ever change sand is if you gunk it up with too many magic potions from those very same pool stores. DE is more work, and it does filter better, I switched to DE a few years ago, and can tell you I would never go back. For me DE filter operations means replacing the DE twice per season (10-15 minute job) and breaking the filter down and acid washing the DE fingers (mine has fingers not grids) about every 2 years in a big rubbermaid trash can, truth is I could probably push that out to every 3, maybe 4 years.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Yes, but note that Isaac's pool is indoor.

    We were amazed at how much stuff our trees drop that we never noticed until we got a pool and had to scoop it all out.
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    Sand filters are the least work, but do use up the most water with all the backwashing, other than that they are the lowest maintenance, take the top off and deep clean every few years, and that is it, no need to ever change sand. Don't buy into that sales pitch from the pool store, it is simply almost never needed, about the only need to ever change sand is if you gunk it up with too many magic potions from those very same pool stores. DE is more work, and it does filter better, I switched to DE a few years ago, and can tell you I would never go back. For me DE filter operations means replacing the DE twice per season (10-15 minute job) and breaking the filter down and acid washing the DE fingers (mine has fingers not grids) about every 2 years in a big rubbermaid trash can, truth is I could probably push that out to every 3, maybe 4 years.
    Thanks for being so specific! That's very helpful! Having never owned a pool, I find some things a bit vague. I'm a very much a details person. The more details I get, the better for me to figure out if DE is right for me, if I can handle the maintenance or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Yes, but note that Isaac's pool is indoor.

    We were amazed at how much stuff our trees drop that we never noticed until we got a pool and had to scoop it all out.
    Thanks for pointing that out. I see it in his siggy but may not have noticed had you not said something.

    I'm probably going to experience the exact same thing with the neighbors trees.


    So, if Isaac is doing a breakdown cleaning every 2-3 years for indoor, is that then the equivalent of doing it 1-2 times/yr for outdoors?

    With cleaning DE, the DE material is changed, but it sounds like you clean a sand filter without removing the sand... What's the cleaning process for sand?
    Denise-TFP Guide
    IG 13.6x30 gunite, Radiant Fusion Topaz, 3.6/5.6/4, 14100 gal, 2 skimmer, 4 Hayward LED lights (pool & spa), Hayward Echostar VSP, 2 future fire bowls, raised beam wall w/ scuppers,7x7 raised spa, DE Progrid70, SWG Hayward Goldline, OmniLogic, Hayward 400K BTU heater, stamped colored deck, Dolphin Discovery robotic cleaner, TF100 test kit, Newbie in Bixby Oklahoma

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    I have a link for you! LOL

    Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

    I had a cartridge filter with the last pool and HATED it BUT that was before I found TFP so that may have something to do with it.

    With my sand filter I just turn off the pump and move the filter handle to back wash and turn the pump back on and let the filter do it's work! Once it is backwashed I turn the handle to rinse let it do it's thing then turn it back to filter and call it good! SO easy!

    As for sand replacement.............YOU will never need it as you have TFP in your back pocket so make sure your pool is clean and clear!

    I cannot speak of DE as I have not played with one before but since I have a pond in my yard and wetlands behind me I do not think DE would be a good pick for me.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Lots of great advice already. So the only thing I would caution you about is your friend's advice. While she may mean well, if her pool is not TFP clear, then ANY filter will be a pain for her. My pool is just under 18K, and you can see the relatively modest cartridge filter that came with "My pool" (pics in my sig) - single cartridge. If I had known better before-hand, I would've requested a larger cartridge filter, not because of clarity concerns, but just to have a bit longer between cleanings.

    Still, with my TFP water, I pull that cartridge out about once per month. I rinse the grey sediment off (very easy), takes me about 10 minutes or so, and I'm back in business. There are no internal components to worry about like with sand or DE (laterals, tubes, manifolds, etc), and I can't imagine my water being any clearer than it is now. Along with the great personal advice above, I would also spend some time on YouTube just so you can see first-hand the many examples. Make sure you do a search for things like "troubleshoot" or "problems with my XX filter". That way you see some potential pitfalls as well.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Indoor or outdoor, pool filter cleaning is going to depend on how big of filter you install, and there is no down side other than initial cost to installing a "oversized" filter, at least within reason. You should be aware that many pool builders install filters that we would generally consider undersized as their standard filters, maybe they consider weekly filter cleaning as no big deal, but why do it if adding a little more money lets you turn it into monthly or even once per season filter cleaning. Additionally each type of filter has its own style of cleaning, with sand filters you backwash flushing hundreds of gallons of water backwards through the filter, typically 3-5 minutes of pump run time on high so around 30-50 Gallons per minute, and hopefully down a drain (assuming you are allowed to connect it to the sewer system where you live). With DE you also sort of backwash (everyone calls it backwashing, but technically the water does not run backwards through the DE) the used DE down the drain (hopefully) or use a DE catch device that filters the DE out from the waste water (if water conservation is an issue you can also put the waste water back in the pool and filter the DE out with a Slime Bag Backwash/DE Slime Bag €“ 3036€ Flow rates up to 120 GPM | The Slime Bag . With DE either way the amount of waste water down the drain is much less than with backwashing a sand filter. Then of course there is the cartridge filter option, from what I have read on here there is a lot of variation on how hard cleaning is depending on cartridge design. Regardless you need a place to put them while hosing them off, some people even take them to a car wash to wash them out, this can be an issue if you have a small yard, and can be messy.

    Ike

    p.s. on the Carcinogen issue with DE, it is an inhalation hazard, like silica dust is, if you breathe it in the sharp particles damage the lungs, a simple dust mask while handling it can prevent this though, once it is wet or used this is not an issue (used DE clumps together).
    Last edited by Isaac-1; 03-10-2016 at 08:08 AM. Reason: ps
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Here is the filter cleaning page that goes into more detail in cleaning and maintenance.
    Pool School - Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    Denise, I think Wendy has a cartridge filter. And she just cleaned it for the first time, so maybe ask her.
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    I live just south of you... I went with a cartridge filter because of the droughts we get here and cost of water... I did build a system that I could empty water out of the pool if needed.



    I have a Pentair Clean and Clear 320 Cartridge Filter and my pool is about 14000 Gal, about 3k less than yours... if you went with a cart I would suggest the 420 or even the 520... I only cleaned my filters once last year and I am planning doing the same again this year...

    With that said, they do take about an hour to clean all 4 filters.. My friend has a ginormas sand filter and loves it but he is on a well and does not pay for water, sand and DE filters use some major water to clean and backwash...
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    If we ever vote on who has the most OCD, pristine, factory-looking equipment pad, Cowboycasey has my vote. That stuff never looks used it's so clean and well-organized. Now I feel guilty.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Stuck on filter decision

    I have a sand filter and haven't owned other types of filters so I cannot speak to those. I use hairnets in my skimmer and as as result, I may have to backwash my filter 1 or 2 times a season and we have a long swim season usually from April through September and sometimes beyond. (This year, it was 82 degrees on Christmas day and I jumped in the pool!) I just wanted to give additional information regarding water usage with a sand filter. It is amazing what is kept out of the filter using some type of skimmer sock.
    5900 G Fiberglass IG pool (circa 1990), SWG Hayward Aqua Rite GoldLine (2013), IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump (2013), Hayward Pro Sand Filter (circa 1990), Well water (no iron or other metals fortunately), test with Taylor K2006C, Charleston, SC

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