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Thread: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

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    Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Hello All

    I have just turned on the IC-40 on a new pool construction as per the PB's instructions and I have a few questions.
    The system is producing chlorine.


    First I have a Pentair VS pump, Pentair IC 40 -- connected to a Pentair Easy touch 4 Panel.

    1) Should the IC 40 only be on when the pump is on? Right now it stays on all the time but shows flow error when the pump is not running.
    2) What lights should be on the IC-40 when I try to set Easy touch panel IC_40 runtimes below 20%?

    When questioned the PB stated the cell should always be on. But I when I read the manual it seemed to say it should only come on with the pump.
    Wanted to get a little confirmation before I push back on the issue.

    Thanks
    12x30 gunite inground pool, 9500 gallons ,Pentair Variable Intelliflo PUR-10-1018, Pentair 420 Cartridge filter, Pentair Easy Touch 4 Panel with IC 40 Salt Cell,diamond brite blue plaster,Pentair intelibrite led light, 3ft sheer decent waterfall.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    It is not installed properly. Lots of PBs do not understand how to connect and set up automation and modern VS pumps. I'm not sure how it to set up the Easytouch with Intellichlor but some folks will be along who can help.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    DA,

    The IC-40 is powered by a Transformer inside the Easytouch. The AC power to that transformer should be wired to pass through the Filter/Pump relay to prevent the IC-40 from running when the pump is off. Generally that is the relay that is on the far left side of your panel. Your PB needs to have someone come out a rewire it.

    It will not hurt anything to run the system the way it is until fixed.. but don't let your PB talk you out of it.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    I have a very similar system as the OP and it is wired the same way. The IC40 stays ON 24/7, but is only actively producing CL when the flow switch is activated.

    It probably doesn't matter too much either way, but I'm not sure about running it through the pump/filter relay:
    1) I'd be a little bit concerned about noise and transients from the motor if they are run through the same set of contacts.
    2) I'm generally of the school of thought that leaving electronics on all the time is better than frequently turning it on and off.
    3) If the IC40 is powered down when the pump is off, it will run through its diagnostics every time it turns on. Probably doesn't hurt anything, but it means you'll have to wait 3-5 minutes before you have any data. When it is left on, it runs the diagnostics every 6 hours or so, and the results can be inspected immediately.
    4) As far as I know, this is the default setup with the Easy Touch/IC40 system. I'm somewhat certain that my PB did not bother to rewire the panel to have the transformer bypass a relay.

    By the way, I have the ET4 with the built-in transformer. It's not entirely clear from the OP whether he has the same system or a separate power center.
    ~13500 gallon gunite pool, Pentair Intelliflo 4x160, Pentair 520 SF cartridge filter, Pentair MasterTemp 400 NG heater
    Pentair Easytouch with IC40 SWCG, Hayward Navigator on dedicated suction line

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Quote Originally Posted by Da456789 View Post
    Hello All

    2) What lights should be on the IC-40 when I try to set Easy touch panel IC_40 runtimes below 20%?
    I presume you're setting it through the Easy Touch interface. I don't recall exactly, but I think the 20% light will come on, but I believe it blinks to indicate something less than 20% Similarly, if you set it to 30%, the 20% light will be steady, but the 40% light will blink. I don't think the blinks change in frequency or duration.
    ~13500 gallon gunite pool, Pentair Intelliflo 4x160, Pentair 520 SF cartridge filter, Pentair MasterTemp 400 NG heater
    Pentair Easytouch with IC40 SWCG, Hayward Navigator on dedicated suction line

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    The SWG flow switch was intended to be a secondary safety feature, not the primary power switch for the unit. It should be wired so that it is only powered up when the pump is running.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    I would like to reiterate a very important point - this setup is NOT typical and is technically unsafe. If you call Pentair up they will tell you directly that the IC should be slaved to the pump relay and should NOT rely on the flow switch for activation. If you look up the Pentair Power Center installation guide (for ICs that are setup without an EasyTouch) the manual states directly that the power center is to be connected to the pool pumps power source so that it cannot be powered on without the pump running. An ET panel with an integrated IC power center from Pentair should be wired in a similar way.

    The flow switch is a fail-safe mechanism and is NOT intended as an operation point for the device. These flow switched can fail in a safe way (in the open-circuit configuration, so still safe) but, if for some reason the internal magnetic reed switch failed in a closed state, you will likely burn up the cell and damage your equipment.

    This situation needs to be rectified by a professional who is familiar with the standard Pentair equipment setup.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Note that this appears to be an EasyTouch with integrated power supply for the IC40, along with an IntelliFlo VS pump; is there even a way to hook it up differently? The general recommendation I've seen is for the VS pump to be connected directly to the breaker and controlled via the data cable, and the IC power supply seems to be pre-wired into the Easytouch assuming it is also controlled primarily by the data cabling. In theory at least, the EasyTouch should be setting the IC to 0% when the pump is off, no?
    21000gal IG plaster, Sacramento CA area (late 1950s/early 60s)
    Filter: Cartridge, Pentair CCP420 (2014)
    Main pump: Pentair IntelliFlo VS (2015)
    Boost pump: 3/4hp (2011), Polaris 280 cleaner (unknown age)

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    My Intelliflo is wired to a breaker and my IC40 is wired to a time clock. I generally run my pump quite a bit more than I run my SWG.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Jmastron,

    The AC input to both the SWG transformer, as well as the System Power Transformer are NOT prewired to anything inside the EasyTouch. Both transformers can be wired with either 240 VAC or 120 VAC. The installation manual is very clear that the AC input to the SWG transformer must be wired through the Pump/Filter Relay to prevent the SWG from running if the pump is not running. It is not unusual for the PB's electrician to take the lazy way out and just apply constant power to the transformer, but it is not the way it was designed to be wired.

    While the Pump/Filter relay does not directly control the Intelliflo VS Pump, it will not come on unless the pump is running and the system is in a mode that requires the SWG to be generating chlorine.

    Pooldv, who does not have an EasyTouch, is using a time clock in place of the Pump/Filter relay, just as you should. He is not relying on the internal flow switch to shut the SWG off, when the pump is off.

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    It might be that the newer installation manuals recommend wiring through the pump relay.

    My copy of the IC40 installation manual (circa 2007) does not discuss this wiring at all, other than to say that it is pre-wired for 220 VAC. It does not show a relay anywhere in the circuit.

    It is possible that the Easytouch uses a logic signal to control the cell power. In the ET programming, there is an option to enable or disable the SWG. I can see where the IC40 will not apply power to the cell unless it is "enabled". This, to me, would represent an adequate mitigation to the possibility of flow switch failure in the closed condition.

    It could be that newer ET systems insist on going one step further. Or, the relay requirement is discussed in the IC40 manual, but not the ET manual.
    ~13500 gallon gunite pool, Pentair Intelliflo 4x160, Pentair 520 SF cartridge filter, Pentair MasterTemp 400 NG heater
    Pentair Easytouch with IC40 SWCG, Hayward Navigator on dedicated suction line

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Thanks for all the info.

    I was able to download the actual installation instructions stating how the ic 40 should be wired. THe PB finally sent someone out to fix the problem. The pump relay is at 220 but the ic 40 has a separate transformer that must be wired into the relay. There are very big warnings both in the panel and in the manual that the IC 40 should not be powered on unless the pump is running.

    Now that he has the power issue corrected I am getting a communications error between the easy touch system and the IC 40. I can control the IC 40 from the cell push buttons. But I should be able to control the IC 40 completely from the easy touch panel correct?
    12x30 gunite inground pool, 9500 gallons ,Pentair Variable Intelliflo PUR-10-1018, Pentair 420 Cartridge filter, Pentair Easy Touch 4 Panel with IC 40 Salt Cell,diamond brite blue plaster,Pentair intelibrite led light, 3ft sheer decent waterfall.

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    I can control my IC40 from my easy touch 8.


    30,000 Gallon Pool IG (Pool 18' X 38' / Spa 7' X 7') - Pentair IC40 SWG - (1) Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST Pump - Pentair DE FNS-Plus 60 Filter - Pentair Mastertemp 400 Heater - Pentair Easytouch 8 - Pentair Electronic valves - Pentair 5G Color LED Pool/Spa Lights - Pebble Sheen Mini Tahoe Blue - Auto Fill/Over Flow - Taylor K-2006C - Completion 3/2016.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Is the comm cable connected to the Easytouch? Did you tell the Easytouch it is connected?
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Pentair IC40 Question -- possible problems on new system

    Quote Originally Posted by Da456789 View Post
    Thanks for all the info.

    I was able to download the actual installation instructions stating how the ic 40 should be wired. THe PB finally sent someone out to fix the problem. The pump relay is at 220 but the ic 40 has a separate transformer that must be wired into the relay. There are very big warnings both in the panel and in the manual that the IC 40 should not be powered on unless the pump is running.

    Now that he has the power issue corrected I am getting a communications error between the easy touch system and the IC 40. I can control the IC 40 from the cell push buttons. But I should be able to control the IC 40 completely from the easy touch panel correct?
    are you certain the pump is running when you are getting this error? If you are looking for info from the IC40 with the pump off, obviously it will not be powered... Turn on pool mode then make sure the cell is on and then check to see if you can control it.

    I doubt wiring is your issue but just to eb sure, make sure the 4 pin plug on the ET board in the low voltage portion is plugged in tightly. The power and data all come in together there at that large connector up to behind the interface panel.
    7-10 year old In ground 20,000 gal, Aquabright ecofinish W/ Spa, waterfall and infinity jet, 60 sq foot DE filter, Single speed pump, Racer cleaner

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