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Thread: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

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    Exclamation Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Hi apologies in advance for not knowing what I'm doing - first pool and all
    Just ran the CYA test w/ the Taylor K-2006 kit and water was not cloudy, so recorded it as 30?
    Then ran the test for Chlorine and added in the DPD powder - first 2 scoops then another 4 more - never turned pink?
    Does that mean no CL ?
    Any help on what to do first would be MUCH appreciated - love the site btw and determined to care for my pool this way....once I figure it out.
    Oh yeah - brand new pool btw - the installer had someone maintain the pool for the first 30 days - then I hate to admit it but was a bit slow to start looking at it - so it's been about 2 weeks with no testing or adding of anything - I've only brushed while I was trying to figure out how to start taking care of it.. Water is clear, but there is a good bit of "dust" accumulating that I'm sweeping and vacuuming....
    HELP!! - thanks.
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Welcome!

    If you have no CYA, it's no surprise you have no chlorine. It will all be gone within a few hours due to UV breakdown from the sun. I'm willing to bet the installer added some CYA via Trichlor pucks, but it won't register at low levels. As long as you mixed 50% pool water and 50% R-0013, it would get at least a little cloudy if you had any CYA.

    To save myself a mess of typing.... I'm going to send you off to pool school. Start with the ABCs, so we're all speaking the same language. Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

    Next up: Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals will tell you what to add to do what and how to add it.

    Pool School - PoolMath will explain how to use poolmath. It's pretty instinctive, but there are some features you might miss if you jump right to it.
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Hi thanks for the quick response - so I did read the ABCs, and went through reading a lot of it all though I won't claim to say it's all sunk in just yet.
    So I'm guessing I need to get the CYA at a reasonable level first so start by adding in cyanuric acid, I first entered 30 in pool math because that was the lowest level on the kit - it said add 15 oz. I just plugged in 0 and it says 59 oz. So what in your opinion would be a good amount to add? Should I go solid/liquid, does it matter? We're not swimming yet, so no worries, I'm not in a big hurry, just want to do it right? Where do I get cyanuric acid, is that a pool store kind of thing? Thanks
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    CYA is something that is best brought up in steps. If you're sure of your math and it's telling you to add 59 oz to get to a CYA of 30 I'd likely add 45 oz granular in a sock hung in front of a return and knead that sock every so often to get it to dissolve a bit faster. Once the sock is empty wait a week and retest. Hopefully you'll be seeing you need to add another 14oz or so. Once you hang the sock you should start to use 20 for your CYA reading until that week is up and you retest. Always start using your target CYA reading when you add.
    It's almost always easier to add a little more than drain water off.
    Since you're not swimming yet you're in no hurry. You can pickup stabilizer (CYA) at Walmart, HomeDepot or ....
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    OK, great thanks for the direction.
    So once I start adding the CYA should I start adding chlorine assuming a CYA of 20 or am I misunderstanding?
    Do I hold off on everything else until the CYA is at a reasonable level?
    Also right now the pool runs on high for a few hours in the a.m. and then on low for another few hours and then off overnight.
    Any recommendations on how to run the pump while bringing up the CYA?
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Assume a CYA level of 20 and add chlorine as directed in PoolMath.

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    got it, thanks.
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Quote Originally Posted by rayconk View Post
    OK, great thanks for the direction.
    So once I start adding the CYA should I start adding chlorine assuming a CYA of 20 or am I misunderstanding?
    Do I hold off on everything else until the CYA is at a reasonable level?
    Also right now the pool runs on high for a few hours in the a.m. and then on low for another few hours and then off overnight.
    Any recommendations on how to run the pump while bringing up the CYA?
    First, we always want chlorine in the pool. No chlorine in Orlando and your pool will be greener than Kermit.

    OK, you can buy CYA at WalMart. Different areas of the country have different brands, just look at the ingredients and you want 95%+ Cyurnaric Acid.

    Now, don't go dumping he bottle into the pool. We like measured doses. It is hard to measure CYA levels much below 20/30, so lets target 30. Using Pool Math (see the link at the top of every page?) your 11K pool needs 44oz by weight or 46oz by volume of stabilizer to get to 30. Measure that out carefully and place it in an old sock. Not the one with a hole in the toe, but one that will hod the CYA in. Suspend that sock in front of one of your returns. When you walk by it give it a squeeze to help speed up the "melting".

    As soon as you hang that sock in the pool assume your CYA is 30 for all chlorine addition calculations.

    Your pump schedule is fine for now, we will circle back to it after your pool is balanced.

    What do you have for all of your tests?

    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA - 0
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Maybe aim for 30 CYA instead. Would you also post a full set of test results? Thanks.

    EDIT: Cross-post

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Jumping in to say HI to another FL person!

    The above have you covered. Do what they say and you will be set.

    For chlorine look around to see if you have an ACE Hardware or a close pool store that sells chlorine using the "rented" jugs. If not check on Walmart for their generic bleach (no smells or easy pour).

    We would LOVE to see a picture of your pool and area!

    Kim
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Great, thanks for all the advice. Picking up CYA and chlorine at lunch today and will get that started tonight as you all suggest.
    I stopped with the other tests after I couldn't get the Chlorine test to register, so I guess for now can assume:
    CYA and CL are 0.

    Should I run the other tests before I add the CL and CYA tonight?

    Thanks - Ray
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    You might as well pickup some muriatic acid while you are at the store, you said the pool is new you will probably be using a gallon or more a month for at least a few months. Look for the 30% stuff often labeled as contractor grade it is usually near the same price as the 15% stuff, so more economical, only down side is stronger fumes (stay up wind and you will be fine). Might as well test after you add the CL and CYA just so you can see what a test with CL in it looks like . Don't bother testing CYA for a while especially if you get the granules it takes about a week to show on a test.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    So dropped by home depot picked up the following:
    2 gallons muriatic acid (at 31.45%) for $11.98 it was a 2 pack
    6 pack of bleach at 5.25% for 7.99 - other option was a 4 pack of 10% for $14 - slightly more but probably easier to deal with in the long run so might do that next time.
    5 lbs of 100% CYA for $19.98

    All this was at home depot - prices seemed good to me, but curious what you guys find in your experience?
    Thanks!
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Check with local pool stores, especially local mom&pop shops. I have a local pool shop in town here in Tucson where I get four 1 gallon refillable jugs of MA for $4.75/gal. Cheapest anywhere around. They also do the same for 12.5% liquid chlorine but I don't know the exact price on that as I don't use much LC. However it's likely cheaper than anywhere else (due to refillable gallon jugs).

    See if you can locate a refillable source and it will likely save you money (and recycle trash).


    Matt
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Will check into that. Thanks.
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    OK, so put in about 40oz of CYA we'll see where that gets me.
    Added about 3/4 gallon of 5.25% bleach
    Ran the pump at mid-speed overnight

    Measured levels this morning:
    FC - 3.6
    CC - forgot to test for this, will do tonight.
    PH - 8+ - it was more red than the top compare color
    TA - 50
    CH - 310 (think I will retest tonight using the recommended procedure for higher levels, hoping I goofed the test)
    CYA - assuming 20 - will re-measure in a week.

    So based on that and using Pool Math like I need to do the following:
    Add another 10ish oz of bleach.
    Add at least 8.5 oz of Muriatic acid (guessing I'll need to do more)
    Assuming my test is similar for CH will need to do some water replacement - is there another way to bring down CH?

    Does that make sense to all of you experts??

    Thanks!
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Don't worry about CH now, it's not nearly as important as getting your CYA and FC correct. My CH is over 800ppm and I'm fine. If you want to fix it, you can do that later.

    Your TA is on the low side so be careful adding acid. Add the recommended amount by PoolMath and see where your pH and TA are at.


    Matt
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Hmm, yes forgot my TA is low so need to raise that which raises PH as well....
    So since they kind of battle each other is there a preferred way to go at that?
    Lower the PH or raise the TA first?
    I'm going to guess from the post above that I should conservatively add the acid to get the PH right and then see where I'm at?

    thoughts?
    11K gal, IG 15x30 Roman, exposed aggregate plaster, Hayward SP3200VSP, Hayward DE4820

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Quote Originally Posted by rayconk View Post
    Hmm, yes forgot my TA is low so need to raise that which raises PH as well....
    So since they kind of battle each other is there a preferred way to go at that?
    Lower the PH or raise the TA first?
    I'm going to guess from the post above that I should conservatively add the acid to get the PH right and then see where I'm at?

    thoughts?
    Follow Matt's advice. Get the CYA & FC squared away first. Then testing the results of that will direct you to the next steps. Just don't get ahead of yourself.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Newbie needs some help - CYA test isn't cloudy - chlorine test seems to show nil

    Don't add any TA. Just add acid and see where you are. 50ppm TA may be where your pool likes to have its TA. I try to keep my TA at 60ppm because then my pH is stable.

    If the TA gets too low, it can always be raised using baking soda but it probably will be unnecessary. Baking soda increases TA without increasing pH.


    Matt
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