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Thread: Losing a Lot of Water

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    Losing a Lot of Water

    Let me start off by saying I am far from being a pool expert, and as such I may not have all of
    my terminology correct. My current problem is that I am losing significant amounts of water in my pool (over 1 inch per hour), but it is very inconsistent. The other day I changed the shaft seal on my main pump due to a slight leak which was visible under the pump. After replacing the seal, the leak was no longer visible under the pump, so I let the pool equipment run as usual (my pump runs from 2:00pm to 10:00pm). When I went out the next morning, there was water moving out of the overflow drainage pipe which runs out to the street. The street was flooded (in my culdesac). The strange thing is that the water
    level in the pool never reached the overflow grate in the pool. I also have an automatic filler on my pool, so I shut it off to see how much water I was losing. I lost about 3 inches of water in about a 2 hour period with the pumps running.

    This isn't the first time this has happened. The last occurrence was after I cleaned my filter cartridges a few months ago. The strange thing is, after a few days, everything went back to normal, no mre
    major leaking. It seams as if this happens every time I open the water lines and air gets in the lines.

    So how is my pool water draining through my overflow when the water level never
    reaches the grate?

    And is it normal for water to leak like this when opening the water lines and air getting into the lines?

    Thanks in advance for any assistance!

    -Kyle
    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    My overflow is connected to the deck drain system and then out to the street. That does not answer your question, but maybe something else is connected to your overflow drain.

    You say "pumps" as in more than one? If so I'd turn off all of the pumps and see if it still leaks. Then I'd turn the pumps on one at a time and see which pump, if any, is linked to the leak. Do you have a water feature that could overflow and get into your deck drains?

    Tell us more about your pool and maybe someone here can come up with the answer.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Jim,

    Thank you very much for the feedback. I believe (at least it appears) that my overflow is connected to my deck drain. I think this is what is confusing me, as I assumed the pool water lines weren't connected to the deck drain. Maybe something is connected to the deck drain??

    Yes, I do have an extra pump for a waterfall feature that flows from the raised side wall to the main pool, but it doesn't appear to be getting (or pushing) water into the deck drain. I also rarely run the waterfall feature, and I haven't run them since I've been having the water level issues.

    I should also mention that the water loss occurs when the pump is running and when all equipment is turned off (and at what appears to be about the same rate of water loss).

    Thanks again for the feedback. Any other details about my pool or system that may help someone find a solution?

    Thanks!
    -Kyle


    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    I only have a few minutes so will make this short:

    If the leak is faster with the pump running it is most likely on the return side plumbing

    If the leak is slower with the pump running it is most likely on the suction side of the plumbing

    If the leak stays the same regardless if the pump is running or not, the leak is most likely in the pool somewhere and not in the plumbing loop
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    If I understand correctly, the pool still leaks when the pumps are off. If so, then the next thing to do is nothing.. well almost nothing. Turn the pumps off and let the water leak. The water level should drop and then stop at just below the point where the leak is.. Of course I'm just guessing, but I suspect the leak will stop when the water drops below the skimmers.

    Is this a gunite or vinyl pool?

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Losing a Lot of Water

    It's a gunite pool.

    I will probably just give it a couple of days to see what happens. This has happened before and it eventually just quick leaking. It's just strange to me that it really only happens when the water lines are opened.

    Thanks again for everyone's help.


    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Could it be a leaking backwash or drain valve?
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Kyle,

    When you say "It's just strange to me that it really only happens when the water lines are opened" I assume you mean the problem occurs, or is worse, when the lid is off the pump basket. If this is true then, as Isaac says, that sound like a suction side leak. But, I can't see how that would directly tie into your overflow system.

    Are you sure the water is coming out of the overflow system itself, or is it just traveling the path of least resistance and flowing along side the overflow pipe to the street?

    Suggest you let the pool sit for a couple of days, with the pump lid off, and see what happens to the water level.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    Could it be a leaking backwash or drain valve?
    I'll be honest, I have no idea. Is it possible that those type of leaks could drain out of the deck drain system?


    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Kyle,

    When you say "It's just strange to me that it really only happens when the water lines are opened" I assume you mean the problem occurs, or is worse, when the lid is off the pump basket. If this is true then, as Isaac says, that sound like a suction side leak. But, I can't see how that would directly tie into your overflow system.

    Are you sure the water is coming out of the overflow system itself, or is it just traveling the path of least resistance and flowing along side the overflow pipe to the street?

    Suggest you let the pool sit for a couple of days, with the pump lid off, and see what happens to the water level.

    Jim R.
    Just to clarify, this issue doesn't typically happen when the lid is off the pump basket. The first time it happened was after I drained the filter compartment to clean the cartridges. Now it's doing it again after I drained the pump to replace the shaft seal. So it appears to happen when a couple of gallons or more of water is released from the pipes.

    I'm pretty confident it is running through the overflow pipe to the street. I can see the water moving through the pipe when I shine a light through the grate on the top of the deck.


    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Not an expert by any means, but I had a problem like this with losing water. It turned out the seal in the controller valve on my filter was bad and when my pump was running in normal mode it was also pushing water into my back flush system and I didn't know it. Just a thought
    47k, 40x20 IG plaster,SWG, 24 jets, 3HP Pentair Whisperflo 2 speed,Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter36" Tank S360T2 TF-100

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Kyle,

    I have been assuming that you do not have a backwash or multiport valve in your system because you have a cartridge filter. Is this true?

    If you do have multiply port valve, that certainly could be the issue. and it would make sense that it could be connected to your drain system.

    Do you have a valve that allows you to drain to waste? If so, that could also be connected to the deck drains.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    I pretty sure I don't have a multi port valve. I'm not sure about a valve to drain to waste either. There is a valve that I'm not sure what it does. Maybe that valve is a drain to waste??

    I'll take some pictures of my equipment/valves today and post them so that you can see what I have.

    Thanks again everyone for the feedback! I can't thank you all enough.


    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    Here are some pictures of my equipment. The valve that I am not sure about is the valve at the bottom left. I have never moved this valve. Any idea what this valve does?




    Inground with spa, +/- 13,000 gal, Pentair pumps, Pentair heater, Pentair cartridge filter, Polaris 360

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    That valve and that lower horizontal pipe look like they are a bypass for the puck holder. It is open now and sending water into the pipe going into the ground coming out somewhere in the pool/spa. Unless that is a check valve above it and the valve at the other end of the lower horizontal pipe is closing off flow to the horizontal pipe. Can quite see what is happening there.
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    Re: Losing a Lot of Water

    The three way valve above the one in question looks to be the divert valve between pool / spa mode. Then you have a check valve right above the valve in question, so that indicates were on the spa side. So this three way valve in question looks to be a way to divert water on the spa side, maybe between jets and regular returns? Or a water feature? Spa overflow? There is a lot going on there, maybe a better picture of the whole return side would help.

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