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Thread: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

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    PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    ... and I'm one of them.

    Great site. Just joined last night, and haven't done my sig yet - so I have a ~45K IGP... it was put in in 2001 and we live in silicon valley.

    The pool is about 40Kg with an attached spa and powered by a whisperflow 2HP pump, through a NPS72 DE filter, and 8 4x12 solar panels. I also have a nature2 canister container, and at one time it was plumbed with a Hayward off-line tablet chlorinator. Oh yeah, and the guy that sold us the pool also sold us a couple of "Aqua-docs" (Magnets). I bought a SWG a few years ago, but will have to do some serious re-plumbing at the pad before I put it in (so I'm still using tablets)

    The pool cleaner is a schizophrenic Polaris 360 on its own booster-pump that loves the deep end and hates the shallow end - I spent most of yesterday trying to get him ("Wilson" - the "pool boy" 8) ) not doing large counter-clockwise circles in the deep end - and wound up needing to clean him out (one of his jets were clogged) and replace his backup mechani$m.

    The spa uses two 2-hp pumps (it's a large spa) - one of them's the pools and another dedicated just for the spa.

    So, for the first 3-4 years, the pool was great and sparkling clear - but more recently I've been having to put more-and-more tablets into the skimmer and going through gallons of shock and Poly-quat with limited effect/impact. In recent years I've been fighting a dusty algae on the steps and in the shallow end and always attributed it to not getting on top of it with enough Cl fast enough... so a vicious cycle of shock, poly, tablet... shock, poly, tablet... over and over again has been progressively getting more aggressive (and costly) over the last two seasons.

    Which lead me to here - there has to be a better way.

    After spending much of last evening going to "Pool School", my gut tells me that my CYA is through the roof keeping my Cl from being effective and I'm going to have to drain-down the pool.

    My (hopefully) very last trip to Leslie's will be today to get a better test-kit than the OTO kit piece of junk that I've had for years and (hopefully) return the un-opened 80-lb pail of tablets I picked-up last weekend. Oh, dang it... I also have a new N2 cartridge already on the way from PP.com....

    So, no measurements yet, but should have some once I get back from the pool store.

    But now I know what I'm looking for.

    Just a couple of quick ones -
    1) How much can I safely drain down when I'm fairly confident that the water table is at lease a few feet below the pool's lowest point (we haven't had any significant rain in several weeks, either)?
    2) I'll be ripping my NSP72 DE filter apart today and spraying off it's grids. How many pounds of DE will it need when I put it back together... both on initial charge, and after each backwash?
    3) I tired of $700/month electric bills in the summer - should I consider moving to 1HP (from 2) pumps for both the jacuuzi and pool? I won't do that today, but when I re-plumb the pool-pad, I'll do it if it makes sense.

    Thanks millions.
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    You are a fast learner! Welcome to TFP

    It is very unlikely you will find the right test kit in a pool store. I know you can only get the TF100 online and the Taylor K-2006 is not usually sold in stores. It is essential for you to have the FAS-DPD test, and those 2 complete kits are the only two that include it. TFtestkits ships very quickly so if you order it now you should have it in 2-3 days or so. I received my last one in 2 days. It is the best bang for the buck - there's an article in Pool School that compares the kits.

    I think you should consider a 2speed pump for your pool, maybe both? 2 speeds really save on electricity.

    Have you read the article in Pool School about use and care of the DE filter? Do you have the owners manual anywhere? Our member Ted/Waste said something about 6lbs to start - there's a recent post about it somewhere I'll post the link - someone else recently opened theirs and cleaned it out and asked the same question.

    As for the CYA, you really need to give us a complete set of test results and find out how high the CYA is before we can recommend how much to drain. I think you are on the right track though.

    Is your pool plaster, vinyl? That would helps us advise you better too.

    See if you can return the N2 cartridge if the box is unopened. Call their customer service line and try to cancel/recall the order.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    I couldn't find any info on google for your DE filter. Are you sure that info is correct? Who is the manufacturer?

    Here's those posts on the other topic I mentioned....
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/post91391.html#p91391

    Hope this helps!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    Found it. Pentair. 7.2 pounds of DE according to this website if this is your DE filter?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    I'm hoping leslie's has this in stock:
    http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/ ... 00/I/81329

    That's it... (the filter).
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    Quote Originally Posted by taekwondodo
    I'm hoping leslie's has this in stock:
    http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/ ... 00/I/81329

    That's it... (the filter).
    They may, its the Taylor re-branded equivalent K-2006.

    Keep in mind the size of the reagents in the TF100 are larger for some of the tests, especially CYA, so you can perform more tests before you have to order refills.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    Quote Originally Posted by taekwondodo
    I'm hoping leslie's has this in stock:
    http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/ ... 00/I/81329

    That's it... (the filter).
    NOT available in the vast majority of their stores but only on their website. Do NOT buy the DPD kit (rebranded Taylor K-2005)!

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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Quote Originally Posted by taekwondodo
    I'm hoping leslie's has this in stock:
    http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/ ... 00/I/81329

    That's it... (the filter).
    NOT available in the vast majority of their stores but only on their website. Do NOT buy the DPD kit (rebranded Taylor K-2005)!
    I didn't, I'll order from TFT.

    But Leslie's did test, and interestingly enough (drumroll please...):
    TAC=0
    FAC=0
    pH 7.4
    TA=120
    Ca=450ppm
    CYA=90
    TDS=650
    Cu=0
    PO4=300-500ppb
    Salinity=9

    Going to go clean the filter now - if I get time, I'm also going to do a minor re-plumb job and put the SWG in - I have room in the plumbing to put it right before the water returns from the pad to the pool...


    (edit - to answer an earlier question - the surface of the pool is tahoe-blue pebbletech)
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    Looking at the "poolschool" chart, looks like I should try to get my CYA down a little-bit...

    If I do a 25% change, that should bring my CYA down to ~6.75 (the pool guy at Leslies also said that this level was perfectly fine - even though his sheet says 30-50ppm, and I'm also ~2-3x those "reccomended" levels...)

    Also, If I get the SWG plumbed in today, another interesting comment the Leslie's guy said: Don't use watersoftener salt, as it has additives and surfactants.

    Let's see:
    for a 40lb bag at Lowes, $4.99, and I'll need roughly 17 bags = $85.00
    But leslie's special salt is $10/40lb bag - = $170

    Methinks there's no difference.

    - Jeff
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    If you are putting in an SWG you shouldn't have to worry about the CYA level, if it's accurate. I would wait until you have your own test kit and retest the CYA, and then decide what to do.

    30-50 is recommended for normal pools, for SWG it's 70-80 so 90 is not too bad. Pool Stores results are notoriously inaccurate though.

    For future reading, you will need to learn about lowering TA in Pool School - once that SWG is running you may notice your PH drifting up, requiring frequent acid additions. Lowering the TA will help keep the PH more stable.

    For the salt:
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    You can use solar salt, sold for water softeners. You want the crystals in the blue bag, 99+% pure salt without any additives. Avoid rust/iron fighter/remover. Places like Lowes and Home Depot have it.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    OK - pulled the filter apart... YECH!

    Lots of gooped-up DE (GROOOOSSSSS!!!) that was greenish in color. Also, disappointing, it seems as though several of the grids are "on their last change" - they are cracked near the top. Is this normal, and if so, what causes it - should I expect to be replacing these grids on a semi-frequent basis? The plastic on them is very brittle...
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  12. Back To Top    #12
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    I really know very little about DE filters. Check out that other thread I posted above...she's got pics on there of her mess.

    Read about Use and Care of DE filters in Pool School, there may be some info there. Hopefully our good buddy Ted/Waste or one of our other resident equipment experts will be along to advise you.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: PT Barnum: A Sucker born every minute...

    I buy my pool salt from Wal-Mart. It is very cheap. Not sure if your local Wal-Mart has pool chems though.

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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