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Thread: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

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    bbrock's Avatar
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    Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Hi TFPers,
    Today I was prepping pool so we can go on a vaca. Of course, things took longer than expected especially when I came across the following situation with my Hayward cartridge filter 450 (I am using Filbur FC-1275 cartridges). I had just finished emptying/cleaning the strainer basket that is in my pump, and then poured water into my pump in the strainer basket. Turned it on, had the pressure relief valve at the top of the cartridge filter open to let out the air, and turned on my pump. It was priming at 3000 RPM and things initially were going okay. After a little while, all the air was released and water started shooting out as it usually does at 3000 RPM. But then, the amount of water that was shooting out started to become incrementally less and less, to the point that even at 300O RPM it was just squirting a little out (not projecting out like it normally does).

    I turned off the pump, opened the pressure relief valve, took off the drain plug for the cartridge, and took off the top. Looking inside the top cover, I didn't notice anything jammed or caught in the inside of the valve. Nor did I notice anything out of the ordinary in the inside of the cartridge housing. So, I put the top cover back on, secured the clamp, put in the drain plug, and made sure the pressure relief valve was open, then started it back up again. Same thing, water was just very gently squirting out the pressure relief valve at 3000 RPM. During this time, I checked the pool jets/returns and they all had the normal pressure they should. I also have a FlowVis, and it was looking normal was the amount of flow it showed I had. I checked the pressure gauge on the top of the cartridge, and it showed I had a little less pressure than normal. I think I may have broke it or something b/c before I took off the top of the cartridge, I was trying to loose that entire pressure relief valve/gauge assembly. I turned it counter clockwise but then turned it back, but I heard it crack or something when I tightened it.

    I am basically curious what is going on. If it is related, one thing is that lately, perhaps one time per week, I notice my cartridge loses its prime and I hear the water bubbling inside it. So, I would turn up the RPM and purge the air.

    In advance, thanks for any help. When I get a a chance I'll try take/post some pics of the pressure relief valve/area.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    If your flow is normal (and it sounds like it is) then something is blocking the path of the relief valve. Doesn't affect the circulatory system but I would open it up and get it fixed.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    bbrock's Avatar
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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Tx Dave.
    I never got emailed that I received a reply, so I assumed no one responded. Now that I see your response, thanks a bunch.
    EDIT: Okay. Just reset the notification for this thread so I should get notification to my email if any responses.

    As of yestreday 2/20/16 @ 1700, it was still doing the same thing. Actually, when I had the manual pressure relief valve opened with VS pump at 2200 RPM, it was not even squirting or trickling out any water. That same day on 2/11/16 prior to posting/creating the thread, I did have the cartridge filter opened, and the top off, but I did not see anything unusual. I don't think my pressure gauge is working as well since 2/11 b/c when I put everything back together that same day, I accidentally used grabbed the pressure relief valve area for a handhold, and I heard a small creaking noise from the gauge. So, I believe that it I probably have to replace the gauge at least.

    Is there a simple way to replace the pressure gauge? Or, is the pressure gauge and pressure relief valve one assembly, which can be replaced and will hopefully solve my problems? Since I have a FlowVis, the pressure gauge is not as relevant b/c I can gauge how the filter is working by look at the reading on the FlowVis, but it is still useful to be able to read a pressure off the gauge for the specific RPM I have my pump set at.

    Lastly, if the pressure relief mechanism can't be switched out, I assume that will necessitate having to replace the entire cartridge system. Is this correct?

    Tx for any help in advance.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Here are some photos of my cartridge filter pressure relief valve, pressure gauge @ 3000 RPM and subsequent trickle from the relief valve, and my FlowVis still showing that my GPM is just as high as ever at 3000 RPM (about 58 GPM for 2" pipe).

    @ 3000 RPM 2/21/16

    @3000 RPM 2/21/16
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Here are some pics of my pressure relief valve. Does this entire mechanism come off? It shows "Lock" and "Unlock" on the top of the cartridge housing. Does that mean that I can unlock the pressure relief mechanism and take the entire thing off? If so, I will try to replace that and see if that makes a difference and things operate normally.

    Does pressure relief valve come off?

    Does pressure relief valve come off?
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Here's a link to a pdf of what appears to be the manual air relief valve assembly.
    SwimClear-DEX242MAR2AirReliefValve.pdf

    If you remove the top, first turn off the pump (via the circuit breaker or manual disconnect) for safety. Then be sure to release any pressure in the filter (I think opening the air release may accomplish this). Since the gauge and valve are both exhibiting issues, something may be blocking the flow on the relief valve assembly.

    The gauge is removable. It is a rear mount type gauge. If you do replace it, http://www.tftestkits.net/Flow-Meters-and-PSI-Gauges has a nice glycerine filled gauge on their website (and it's much better than the standard Hayward gauge too).

    The valve is also removable and probably available many places on the web or locally.

    But first, I'd remove the top and see if anything might be plugging the entryway into the valve/gauge area.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Proavia, tx for those links. Really appreciated. Have some time now to go explore my filter/cartridge system to see if anything is obstructing it. I like those pressure gauges at TFT.

    Will keep this thread posted.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Took off the pressure relief valve w/ some struggle. Afterwards, PSI gauge was useless, which I expected b/c it was already practically broken from messing with the pressure relief valve previously. Due to lack of time and wanting it done today, went to local pool shop for PSI gauge. Looks good enough, performs well enough, and goes by 1 psi increments (better than the Hayward original one that went by 2). With the pressure relief valve off, I dug into both the inlet/outlet side w/ a coat hanger. Nothing definitively seemed like it was blocking it besides just typical debris. Next, used my hose w/ the solo jet valve and shot through the inlet at max pressure. Seemed to work b/c the water was shooting out. Lubed up the O-rings on the pressure relief valve and the one sitting on top of the cartridge filter housing w/ some Magic Lube, and even lubed up the O-ring for the manual drain plug (figured that hadn't been lubed in awhile). Screwed/locked the pressure relief valve back on and was amazed that it was so much easier to lock into place. Guess it was really overdue for some Magic Lube. Should make taking it off next time much easier. Threw 3 wraps of teflon tape on threads of the PSI gauge and then hand tightened that in place. Filled the pump basket/strainer with water, covered that, kept the pressure relief valve toggle switch open, and turned on the system. Rest assured, water came shooting back out the pressure relief valve toggle switch.

    Looks like back to normal. Checked the PSI gauge and it was working. Not concerned about the reading b/c I clean the filters prior to the swim season and at the end.

    System primed and looking good. Here is a pic of the new gauge.

    Attachment 45485

    One last thing I forgot to mention, but perhaps this is a topic for a new thread if it continues to happen, is that for some time, I seem to lose prime in my Hayward cartridge housing. I could tell this b/c after I would have it primed and full of water, may be 2 or 3 weeks later I would hear water swooshing/bubbling-sounding in the cartridge housing. This was occurring during this whole episode with my pressure relief valve not working, but I also think it may have occurred before. I am going to my eye on the system and assess if it does it again. I'll let things dry out right now. Perhaps there is a slow drip/leak from the pressure relief valve opening (where the water shoots out)? Let me observe for awhile.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Happy to hear you got your relief valve and pressure gauge issues resolved.

    As for losing prime, here's a Pool School article that may help isolate that issue:
    Pool School - Suction Side Air Leaks
    Post back, ask any questions and let us know how the troubleshooting goes.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Help... cartridge filter doing some strange things

    Just following back up.

    Read that useful link re: suction side air leaks. Thanks for sharing Gene.

    I purchased some Magic Lube and applied it to the gasket/O-ring for the lid of my pool pump strainer basket. So far, so good. Haven't noticed that problem again that I eluded to in post #8. Will keep monitoring things.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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