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Thread: Advice Please

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    Advice Please

    Things have been going well with my pool all winter. I do not cover pool but leave my pump running 24/7 and vacuum regularly. Yesterday I noted that the pool liner was getting a bit dirtier then usual so I put in a gallon of 8.25 bleach and decided to throw in a 1 lb. bag of dichlor shock figuring it would do no harm. Well, I was very wrong! My once clear water turned a bit green. Question is now should I just wait to see if it clears up over time or should I add more bleach?
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    Sounds like algae and time for a SLAM. Curious, what's your test numbers?
    Doughboy 12' x 20' Saphire semi-AG, Installed 2012
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    Aprox 7000 Gal, Full sun, 85K heat pump,
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    Re: Advice Please

    Yes, I kinda thought that might be the case. Will probably be out tomorrow to buy some bleach. I haven't tested in quite a while because of bad weather/rain here but my tests numbers are:

    FC = .5
    CC = 0
    ALK = 80
    pH = 7.5
    CTA = 50
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    With a FC of .5, it's definitely too low. Yes, time for a bleach buy. Make sure to load up. Your pool size and CYA of 50 calls for 6 gallons of bleach to bring your FC to 20. Gonna need a few extra gallons to keep it at 20 for a while until you pass the overnight test.
    Doughboy 12' x 20' Saphire semi-AG, Installed 2012
    Waterway 1.5 HP 2 speed, 100 sqft cartridge filter
    Aprox 7000 Gal, Full sun, 85K heat pump,
    TF-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Advice Please

    Before you rush off to start a SLAM lets do a little more detective work. If yoiu can tonight fine, if not tomorrow evening - add three 121 oz bottles of 8.25% concentrated bleach. That should bring your FC up to a little over 10. With the pump running wait about 20 minutes and test your FC (don't worry about other tests). Once the sun is off the pool test FC again and then in the morning before the sun hits the pool test FC again. This is the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT).

    A couple of other questions -

    The green, is it a clear green or is the water cloudy?

    What is the water temperature?

    Now another question, whay ar eyou running the pump 24/7 this time of year? A few hours a day is all that is probably needed unless there is a threat of freezing weather.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Advice Please

    mkalis, one other thought for you as it concerns me that your water reacted so abruptly after adding the chlorine/dichlor. Sure, your FC is quite low, but it could also be that you have metals in the water. See THIS THREAD for a similar discussion. Do you get your water from a well? Or ever had the source water tested for metals (iron/copper)? Might be good to do if you haven't. If you do have metals, regular use of a sequestrant may be the prescription. Something to consider as you adjust your chemicals in preparation for the swimming season.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by LI poolguy View Post
    With a FC of .5, it's definitely too low. Yes, time for a bleach buy. Make sure to load up. Your pool size and CYA of 50 calls for 6 gallons of bleach to bring your FC to 20. Gonna need a few extra gallons to keep it at 20 for a while until you pass the overnight test.
    Thanks

    - - - Updated - - -

    OK, I will try to do the OCLT test

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Before you rush off to start a SLAM lets do a little more detective work. If yoiu can tonight fine, if not tomorrow evening - add three 121 oz bottles of 8.25% concentrated bleach. That should bring your FC up to a little over 10. With the pump running wait about 20 minutes and test your FC (don't worry about other tests). Once the sun is off the pool test FC again and then in the morning before the sun hits the pool test FC again. This is the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT).

    A couple of other questions -

    The green, is it a clear green or is the water cloudy?

    What is the water temperature?

    Now another question, whay ar eyou running the pump 24/7 this time of year? A few hours a day is all that is probably needed unless there is a threat of freezing weather.
    Water is clear green, not cloudy.
    Have always run the pump 24/7; just habit and find it keeps it clearer.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    mkalis, one other thought for you as it concerns me that your water reacted so abruptly after adding the chlorine/dichlor. Sure, your FC is quite low, but it could also be that you have metals in the water. See THIS THREAD for a similar discussion. Do you get your water from a well? Or ever had the source water tested for metals (iron/copper)? Might be good to do if you haven't. If you do have metals, regular use of a sequestrant may be the prescription. Something to consider as you adjust your chemicals in preparation for the swimming season.
    Have city water; not from a well. Not sure if my source water has metals; I would assume not but I guess it's possible. I believe the city tests regularly but not sure. I guess it may not hurt to use a sequestrant regularly. Any suggestions of which one?
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Advice Please

    ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff (regular) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find other brands with similar products, some of which are noticeably less expensive. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective.

    Before you purchase and attempt however, I would suggest taking a sample of your source water (before chlorine) to a local pool store for metals testing. While we always encourage pool owners to test their own water (i.e. TF-100), metals testing is one best left for them. Since your water is clear-green, metals could be a player. Some folks describe a metal tint as sort of a clear/emerald green as opposed to the cloudy, yucky green of algae. Let us know how it turns out. We'll all be here if you still have questions.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff (regular) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find other brands with similar products, some of which are noticeably less expensive. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective.

    Before you purchase and attempt however, I would suggest taking a sample of your source water (before chlorine) to a local pool store for metals testing. While we always encourage pool owners to test their own water (i.e. TF-100), metals testing is one best left for them. Since your water is clear-green, metals could be a player. Some folks describe a metal tint as sort of a clear/emerald green as opposed to the cloudy, yucky green of algae. Let us know how it turns out. We'll all be here if you still have questions.
    Ok. I will try taking a water sample to the pool store to see what they can tell me. I will let you know what happens then see where I should go from there. Thanks.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    mkaklis, something else I thought of this morning that I wanted to run by you since we got on the subject of metals ....... any chance you added an algaecide to your water over the winter? Many algaecides contain metal which may be the reason your water turned green immediately after adding chlorine. Just a thought after waking-up with a fresh brain this morning.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    mkaklis, something else I thought of this morning that I wanted to run by you since we got on the subject of metals ....... any chance you added an algaecide to your water over the winter? Many algaecides contain metal which may be the reason your water turned green immediately after adding chlorine. Just a thought after waking-up with a fresh brain this morning.
    No, I have not added any algaecides over the winter months. But I did notice that this morning the color is not as green and has gone back to almost normal again. I am still going to have the water checked but I forgot to bring a sample to work with me this morning so I could bring it; so I will have to do it tomorrow. Will let you know. Thanks.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    Mkalkis, I have a recollection of assisting you last season and having a clear sense that you were also dealing with metals. I don't have time to look up the threats right now, but please test before you sequester and report back. If you do, you need to maintain sequestrant level periodically and maintain you FC to avoid slamming which oxidizes metals.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Advice Please

    If you suspect metals (and I do) you should not add a big dose of chlorine......that'll make your clear green worse.

    Can you get an iron test done on your pool water? The sudden turn to clear green after a SUDDEN dose of chlorine (stop using dichlor) usually indicates iron has precipitated.

    You still need to keep your chlorine up around 3-5 ppm and failure to do so will give you a nice algae bloom.

    So, I think you have two problems.....

    1. Inadequate chlorine in your pool.

    2. Iron in your pool - indicated by the sudden green color after a big dose of chlorine.

    But I did notice that this morning the color is not as green and has gone back to almost normal again.
    That's typical - the iron is going back into solution as the chlorine subsides.

    I suggest.....

    Testing your FC and adding liquid chlorine in small doses to get your FC up to around 3-5 ppm and KEEP it there.

    Keeping a sequestrant in that pool. Follow dosage directions on whatever brand of polyquat 60 you buy. You can test for iron if you like but sometimes the test is unreliable and everything you post indicates to us it's in there.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    If you suspect metals (and I do) you should not add a big dose of chlorine......that'll make your clear green worse.

    Can you get an iron test done on your pool water? The sudden turn to clear green after a SUDDEN dose of chlorine (stop using dichlor) usually indicates iron has precipitated.

    You still need to keep your chlorine up around 3-5 ppm and failure to do so will give you a nice algae bloom.

    So, I think you have two problems.....

    1. Inadequate chlorine in your pool.

    2. Iron in your pool - indicated by the sudden green color after a big dose of chlorine.

    That's typical - the iron is going back into solution as the chlorine subsides.

    I suggest.....

    Testing your FC and adding liquid chlorine in small doses to get your FC up to around 3-5 ppm and KEEP it there.

    Keeping a sequestrant in that pool. Follow dosage directions on whatever brand of polyquat 60 you buy. You can test for iron if you like but sometimes the test is unreliable and everything you post indicates to us it's in there.
    Okay thanks. I have, this morning, brought my FC to 3.5. I do not have any sequestrant so will get some today at lunch. The polyquat 60 is a sequestrant like Jack's pink stuff? Not sure. My water has cleared but I do have a bit of algae and liner is a bit stained.

    Another thing I noticed on reading up on the staining. It says metals (iron) generally is in well water, not municipal. Mine is municipal. Although the water did turn green suddenly when I put in the dichlor, then started to clear. Also read that staining can be from leaf matter in pool over extended period. During the winter mine did have a period where the leaves were accumulated and sat for a time. Could this staining be from that? Just some thoughts running through my head trying to figure things out.

    Thanks.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    Generally sudden green onset after chlorine added is an indicator of metals as has been suggested. Go on line and look for your municipal water system and see if they post water quality test results on line. Mine does and they do include the metals testing in the report.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Generally sudden green onset after chlorine added is an indicator of metals as has been suggested. Go on line and look for your municipal water system and see if they post water quality test results on line. Mine does and they do include the metals testing in the report.
    Thanks, I will try that. I also brought with me some faucet water from my house as well as water from my pool and plan to try to stop today to get it tested.

    I think my best bet will probably be what duraleigh suggested. Getting my FC to 3 - 5 and adding sequestrant per instructions and keeping sequestrant in there regularly.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    If you suspect metals (and I do) you should not add a big dose of chlorine......that'll make your clear green worse.

    Can you get an iron test done on your pool water? The sudden turn to clear green after a SUDDEN dose of chlorine (stop using dichlor) usually indicates iron has precipitated.

    You still need to keep your chlorine up around 3-5 ppm and failure to do so will give you a nice algae bloom.

    So, I think you have two problems.....

    1. Inadequate chlorine in your pool.

    2. Iron in your pool - indicated by the sudden green color after a big dose of chlorine.

    That's typical - the iron is going back into solution as the chlorine subsides.

    I suggest.....

    Testing your FC and adding liquid chlorine in small doses to get your FC up to around 3-5 ppm and KEEP it there.

    Keeping a sequestrant in that pool. Follow dosage directions on whatever brand of polyquat 60 you buy. You can test for iron if you like but sometimes the test is unreliable and everything you post indicates to us it's in there.
    Okay, I had my water tested today (2 different places) and both said there is no iron or copper in my water. They tested both my source water and my pool water. They said there may be either other contaminants like maybe magnesium but no iron or copper, which is all that they tested for. Although they said it is usually metals that would explain the sudden greeness when I put the chlorine in they believe that it is other organics causing the problem. I did get a sequestrant as they said that should help the light staining of the liner and help prevent any other stains. I got one that works with chlorine and they said if it works then I should keep maintaining with sequestrant weekly.

    My free chlorine is at 3 so I will add a bit more bleach tonight and try the sequestrant tomorrow.
    mkaklis
    27' x 52" AG vinyl, 16,000 gal, Pleatco PAP100 Cartridge Filter, 1.5 HP pump, TK100

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    Re: Advice Please

    they believe that it is other organics causing the problem.
    That makes no sense. Pools, with the sudden addition of chlorine, do not go green from organics.

    As always, blending what you learn on this forum with pool store advice is a bad recipe.....you end up in the middle not knowing which way to turn. You should settle on one source and try to get your pool clear with the help of that source.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Advice Please

    ^+1

    Okay, so this morning I tried to dig up your summer thread.

    You treated with a product called Metal Control from Leslie's back in July. If its available to you, I would trust Metl Magic, but either way, when you're using sequestrant and it wears off and your water turns green on addition of chlorine there is really NO question, you have metals

    I also found this comment referring to your ascorbic acid treatments and your purple flashpoint on calcium reading:
    I know you said you're not on well, but the fact that you've had to do what sounds like two stain treatments (which worked) suggests to me that you do in fact have metal, despite the pool store report that you don't. The purple flash point in your calcium test also suggests metals.
    So stay the course by topping up your sequestrant, maintaining normal FC, and do not slam, at least until you've given the sequestrant a week to work....slamming will turn your water clear green by the sounds of it. If you HAVE to later because you have algae, then you'll need to add sequestrant again after.

    Hope this helps!
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
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