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Thread: The latest test results...

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    The latest test results...

    For the last 3 days I've been using the testing agents in my K-2006 kit that I found on Craigslist. Well, today the mailman brought me a package with some new reagents. Specifically, all three bottles to test TA. I wanted to be shown that I needed these new chems and that I didn't waste my money. Here's the before and after results:

    old TA - 90
    new TA - 140

    I did each test twice with old and new...rather convincing results if you ask me. While I'm at it, here's the rest of my numbers for the experts to mull over and comment:

    FC - 3 (dropped from 6.4 and 3.8 previous days)
    CC - .2 ( holding at .2)
    pH - 8.0 ( went up from 7.8 last few days)
    TA - 140
    CH - 280 ( raised this from 150 a couple days ago using calcium chloride)
    CYA - 40

    im still learning my pool, but is there anything to tackle immediately? Bring pH down I assume. How do I get rid of the CC?
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    That is VERY educational to see! Thanks for sharing!

    You need to bump your FC up a little. How did you get .2 for your cc?

    Your next step to work on your PH/TA relationship as seen in this link.

    Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

    You are going to have to work and watch your PH/TA to see what YOUR pool likes. Some pools like a lower TA, some like a higher TA. You need to keep great records of your tests to see the pattern. Once your PH stops "bouncing" up and down you will know you found your pool's TA. Know the charts are for guidance. They are not set in stone. Do what your pool likes.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    I think the 0.2 is from using a 25ml sample.

    Jpolsen: Use a 10ml sample for FC/CC and then multiply each drop by 0.5. You will save on reagents and that accuracy is good enough most of the time.

    Don't worry about getting CC down. If you are at or below 0.5, you are okay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, you can lower your pH and lower your TA by reading and following these instructions as Kim already said: Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Good catch Marian! I only use the 10m. sample so forgot about the 25ml sample.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    I added some chlorine this evening so that should help raise the FC level. Tomorrow I'll tackle the lowering of the pH and TA and see what happens. Thanks for taking a look and for the advise.
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    You're welcome! We will be happy to help further if you need it!

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    jpolsen,

    Maybe not so convincing on the TA test.....I think maybe you forgot to wipe the dropper tip.

    When the R-0009 reagent (that's the one where you count the drops) is brand new, there is a static charge that develops between the bottle and the reagent itself. That static can skew your results too high.

    The static causes the drop to "jump" off the bottle before it is fully formed........resulting in a smaller drop.....resulting in a higher TA result.

    Re-do the test and, this time, wipe the dropper tip with a damp cloth in between drops to eliminate the static.

    By the way, I am a HUGE fan of fresh chemistry to perform your testing. It is a tiny. tiny investment to make in that nice pool. You didn't waste your money no matter how the test turns out.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Lowering TA and pH together can take a while. Be patient and do it in small increments.

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Dave, I will try what you say and retest before I add anything. Question: The previous home owners left half a bottle of pH Down here...the main ingredient being sodium bisulphate. Just so I can use it up and toss the bottle, would it hurt to pour this in and see how much, if any, it lowered the pH? Once used up, I'll resume with muriatic acid.

    Thoughts?
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Retested TA being careful to wipe the tip after each drop. Got a definitive 130. Also, seems pH is creeping even higher, now at 8+.

    First action is lower pH then aerate?
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Yep. If you are working down the TA, lower the pH down to 7.2, aerate, repeat. Be patient, this usually takes a fair amount of time.
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Ok...did just what Patrick said: lowered pH to 7.2 using MA (BTW, pool math was spot on!) and am aerating via returns pointed upwards. My TA went from 130 to 110 during this process.

    My question is, what can I expect to see with my pH and TA levels over the next few days/weeks as I try to find my pool's "happy place"? I assume pH will rise and perhaps TA rise slower or hold steady? Then I repeat the process after pH gets around the 7.8 - 8.0 range? Will the TA slowly come down after each cycle of this? Please explain what I can expect to see.

    I love a good challenge!
    Last edited by Jpolsen; 01-23-2016 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Add comment
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    You can expect pH to bounce back over and over until you finally "crush" enough of the TA, and you'll know its getting closer when the pH rise takes longer and longer. Take it to 7.0 if you like since you have the dose down, just be careful not to overshoot and drive the pH too far down. This may take two or more weeks depending on your situation. Yes, Pool Math is fantastic, and works very, very well. People pick nits with it, but it really is nice.
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    TA can't increase on its own unless you add something to raise it (soda ash, baking soda, high TA fill water). With each acid addition you should be able to lower your TA. However, with each cycle, it will take progressively longer for the pH to rise. So you just have to find a TA that gives you the longest stretch between acid additions. Practically speaking, pool water is comfortable at any pH between 7.2 to 8.0. During normal operation, I try never to lower my pH below 7.5 and I typically wait until my pH is 7.8 before trying to lower it back down. During the winter months, that can mean weeks between acid additions whereas in the summer months that frequency goes up to days. My TA of 60 in my pool gives me the right balance I'm looking for.


    Matt
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    When lowering the TA, once the pH gets to 7.4-7.5, add enough acid to drop it back to 7. PH rise is significantly faster at lower pH levels so that will also help speed the process along.
    -Brian-
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    If I'm working on TA, trying to lower it, I always shoot for 7.0-7.1 myself. I have monster high TA/pH mane CH in my well water, so I consequently run LOW TA in my pool. Getting it lower takes a long time if I don't go to the lower 7s pH range when I'm working this down.

    You can do the same, but make sure you get very good test results on TA, and be very careful with the appropriate Acid dose, and you'll be fine.

    Also, I've forgotten to say- The TA test reagents are extremely stable long term, and having that particular test go bad is highly, highly unusual.
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    Re: Old test agents vs new test agents

    Also, I've forgotten to say- The TA test reagents are extremely stable long term, and having that particular test go bad is highly, highly unusual.
    +1 one on that, Patrick_B
    Dave S.
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    The latest test results...

    I've been on a mission to lower my TA from 140 to 80ish (or wherever the pool likes it). Here's the latest test results with a couple follow up questions:

    FC: 4.8
    CC: .2
    pH: 7.6 (up from 7.0 a few days ago)
    TA: 90
    CH: 270
    CYA: ~35
    pool water is clear and temp is ~56F
    have 3 jets pointed straight up for aeration.

    Q1) how slowly should I expect to see the pH rise for me to know that the pool has found its happy place with pH/TA? I just lowered it back to 7.2 to see what it does over the next few days.

    Q2) I tested CYA with water that sat for approximately 45 min getting to room temp and it tested 10-15 ppm lower than just a week ago. We also got 2 days of straight rain. Would the CYA drop that much due to rain or warmer water at testing? Should I raise it a bit?

    Lastly, I want to sing the praises of my new speed stir! Love it...makes testing easier and more fun!

    That is all.
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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    Re: The latest test results...

    1. It's a little different for everyone. Compare it to your previous acid addition frequency to gauge it. Check your CSI with a lower TA to make sure you'd be ok with pushing it lower if the rise is till too fast. You should get to your goal of 80 first, and see what the pH does there before moving further down in TA. Do that and then decide.

    2. 15 PPM is within the margin or error on Cya so no worries. Depending on how much rain it will change some but it's linear. Figure how much it added in terms of percent, and it will correlate directly to Cya change. Very simple.
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    Re: The latest test results...

    CSI goes to -.02 if my pH is 7.8 and TA is 80 (all else at current levels). Seems like a good number to me! We'll see if the pool naturally finds those levels.
    ~12,000gal. plaster, in-ground pool; Hayward cartridge filter; 1hp pump; Use Taylor 2006 kit w/ Speed Stir.

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