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Thread: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

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    DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    OK, I'm not the best pool mom in the winter, but I do keep the baskets clean and the polaris guy going every day. I add MA and BL periodically, based on history... not testing as I should.

    Recently, when the "freeze protection" came on through the night, the spa drained into the pool, and the pool used it's "overflow" and I lost water. Then the spa would refill from the pool I guess.. Pool level was fixed every day. My PB said to put both Jandy auto switches in the middle. I did that.. Then a few days later saw that the DE filter was spewing water (more than a leak..) from the pressure valve. I put the computer in "service" and now only run it when I'm home and can watch it. Any thoughts on what could cause that? FYI... on a good day, from day ONE, my pressure has always been at 20-25... When it gets 10 above those numbers, I clean it. I bought one of the water filled valves. Thoughts?

    PS... While in "service mode" the spa drained again, but only about 5".
    Helen
    Dallas Area, 16,000 gal IG, Easytouch 8 computer, Intelliflo 3HP Variable Speed pool pump, Pentair Smart Pump 4x160, Pentair 3/4 HP Booster Pump, FNS 60 DE 60, Mastertemp 400, Rainbow 320, Dual Timer w/ freeze protection, Intellichor SWG, TF100 Test Kit, POOL FILLED AUG 3, 2012, ORDER YOUR TF100 KIT FROM http://tftestkits.net
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/under...ie-t49936.html

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Usually a leaking pressure gauge needs to be replaced. TFTestkits.net has very nice oil filled gauges for 11 bucks. It is normally recommended to clean the filter when pressure rises 25% from clean pressure.
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    A picture would help but is sounds like your high flow air relief valve is open. Usually you twist the valve 1/4 turn to open or close it. Try opening and closing the valve to see if it reseats and seals.

    Also, it sounds like your spa and pool valves are not opening and closing in unison or one of them is stuck open. In some systems when freeze protect kicks in, the valves switch between pool mode and spa mode every 15mins to make sure water is flowing in all the pipes. It is possible that one of your valves (suction side) is not fully closing or the valve is rotating to far and the pump suction is being partially applied to the spa when in pool mode causing the spa to drain into the pool. Check on proper valve actuation by manually changing the switch positions and changing modes on your automation panel.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Oops, I misread that one! Yes, the gauge housing needs to be turned 1/4 turn to close the valve.
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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    A picture would help but is sounds like your high flow air relief valve is open. Usually you twist the valve 1/4 turn to open or close it. Try opening and closing the valve to see if it reseats and seals.

    Also, it sounds like your spa and pool valves are not opening and closing in unison or one of them is stuck open. In some systems when freeze protect kicks in, the valves switch between pool mode and spa mode every 15mins to make sure water is flowing in all the pipes. It is possible that one of your valves (suction side) is not fully closing or the valve is rotating to far and the pump suction is being partially applied to the spa when in pool mode causing the spa to drain into the pool. Check on proper valve actuation by manually changing the switch positions and changing modes on your automation panel.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

    Thank you both! IIMG_5187.jpg This is the gauge I have.. It's 3 years old and for $11.00, I'll just replace it. The stream of water was coming out of the black hose hole at the bottom. One twist made it stop. I was just hoping that wasn't a warning that the sucker was going to blow up. Hopefully that will fix that. As for the Jandy valve, JN, that makes sense. When I called the PB, he had me put the toggle switch in the middle (off..?) for now. He said to flip it down if I wanted to turn the spa on. Can you tell me what it means when the toggle is up or down? Thank you both! You know, I didn't realize that toggle switch would move on it's own during the freeze session. I just thought somebody was messing with me.

    If this photo attached correctly, I'll post the other photos. Thanks again!!
    Helen
    Dallas Area, 16,000 gal IG, Easytouch 8 computer, Intelliflo 3HP Variable Speed pool pump, Pentair Smart Pump 4x160, Pentair 3/4 HP Booster Pump, FNS 60 DE 60, Mastertemp 400, Rainbow 320, Dual Timer w/ freeze protection, Intellichor SWG, TF100 Test Kit, POOL FILLED AUG 3, 2012, ORDER YOUR TF100 KIT FROM http://tftestkits.net
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/under...ie-t49936.html

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Helen,

    The black valve on top of the filter is your air-relief valve. Typically, when you open up the system to clean out pump strainers, etc, you let air in the system. The air eventually works itself out through an internal air bleed inside the filter. But, if you want to do it faster, you just turn that valve at the top when the pump is running (low speed please!) and it opens the top of the filter. A small rush of air will come out, then water. Once the water comes out, you twist it closed again and then there's no more air in your filter. It also helps when you need to drain the filter. You open the air release and then the bottom drain plug and all the water drains out. For whatever reason, the air relief popped open on you and was shooting water out.

    If it continues to leak water, then it may need to be fixed. There are two o-rings in it that can wear out over time and typically need replacing every few years. If you have your Pentair filter owners manual, it explains how to service that valve. It's not hard at all.

    As for the automated valves, the switches just tell the valve actuator to turn fully to one stop position or the other. Typically you set them up so that the position of switches (ex, position 1) matches a particular water flow mode (ex, POOL Mode). The middle position is OFF which cuts the power. So you can flip the switch to OFF when the valves are moving and stop them at any position you like (but don't leave them this way as the automation system will not know they are off). You have to look at the valve handle to see where it comes to a complete stop. If the handle isn't perfectly in line and parallel with a particular pipe direction, then the internal valve door will be skewed and it will not seal properly. I had an actuator do that once (would not fully close) and it drained my spa over a weekend when I was not home. It was under warranty so I basically got a new actuator. Have you PB look at it as it might be a simple fix.

    Good luck,

    Matt
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    So I shouldn't leave the toggle in the middle? It's going to be the 70's all weekend, I'll put it in spa mode I guess and see what happens. Here is what it looks like from the front. Spa is not draining with toggle(s) off but.. see the handles are skewed. The top one had to be turned like that in order for the grotto waterfall to work.

    I'm running out to get chlorine and MA to get the chemicals sorted out. But, I'll be back soon.

    IMG_5193.jpg

    IMG_5195.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Helen
    Dallas Area, 16,000 gal IG, Easytouch 8 computer, Intelliflo 3HP Variable Speed pool pump, Pentair Smart Pump 4x160, Pentair 3/4 HP Booster Pump, FNS 60 DE 60, Mastertemp 400, Rainbow 320, Dual Timer w/ freeze protection, Intellichor SWG, TF100 Test Kit, POOL FILLED AUG 3, 2012, ORDER YOUR TF100 KIT FROM http://tftestkits.net
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/under...ie-t49936.html

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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    To open the air relief, you have to push down slightly and twist. That's because there is a notch that locks in when the valve is fully closed. If the valve does not click into the notch when it's closed, it can work its way open again. I suspect that that's what happened.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Something doesn't look right in your valve configuration. The valves should be completely one direction or the other in SPA/POOL mode. At no time should the return flow be split like that. If that's how it's setup, then I'm missing a detail.

    Does your spa have a water return separate from the spa jets themselves?


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    OK. I can see the pictures more clearly now.

    If you only had the leak from your filter that might explain the spa getting drained...maybe.

    But one thing you need to test on the suction side of the pump is to make sure that the automatic valve is indeed 180 degrees different when you change the switch position from #1 to #2. If the pump is in POOL mode, but the handle is not completely parallel, then there can be some suction supplied to the SPA line b accident. That could drain the spa into the pool.

    I'm not sure what's going with your return side being skewed like that. If you only can return water through the spa jets (no separate spa return line), then that would be the only way to do a spa spill-over. I'd need to see more of your plumbing to know for sure.

    Also, I guess you're waiting for the PB to show up? If he's not coming by anytime soon, you don't want to leave the valves with the switch in the OFF position or else they will not actuate when you use the control panel. I'd set them back to normal and then try to observe what happens if you have the time.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    OK. I can see the pictures more clearly now.

    If you only had the leak from your filter that might explain the spa getting drained...maybe.

    But one thing you need to test on the suction side of the pump is to make sure that the automatic valve is indeed 180 degrees different when you change the switch position from #1 to #2. If the pump is in POOL mode, but the handle is not completely parallel, then there can be some suction supplied to the SPA line b accident. That could drain the spa into the pool.

    I'm not sure what's going with your return side being skewed like that. If you only can return water through the spa jets (no separate spa return line), then that would be the only way to do a spa spill-over. I'd need to see more of your plumbing to know for sure.

    Also, I guess you're waiting for the PB to show up? If he's not coming by anytime soon, you don't want to leave the valves with the switch in the OFF position or else they will not actuate when you use the control panel. I'd set them back to normal and then try to observe what happens if you have the time.



    Ok! I'll get some pics - just got back home - finding space in the garage for my pool stuff..

    Well honestly Matt I don't know about the plumbing. But I'll print this out and do what you said.

    It's dark - but here is a pict when it was first set up..IMG_1766.jpg


    IMG_5192.jpg
    Helen
    Dallas Area, 16,000 gal IG, Easytouch 8 computer, Intelliflo 3HP Variable Speed pool pump, Pentair Smart Pump 4x160, Pentair 3/4 HP Booster Pump, FNS 60 DE 60, Mastertemp 400, Rainbow 320, Dual Timer w/ freeze protection, Intellichor SWG, TF100 Test Kit, POOL FILLED AUG 3, 2012, ORDER YOUR TF100 KIT FROM http://tftestkits.net
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/under...ie-t49936.html

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    Re: DE filter spewing a stream of water from gauge area..

    Ok, flashlight in hand... I put the top actuator (labeled SPA RETURN) on toggle 1. I put the bottom actuator (labeled SPA SUCTION) on #2, since it didn't want to go into #1.
    Turned on the pump. Spa draining, skimmers not working. So I went back to the old setup for now. I'm in the middle of slamming my pool, so I have to keep it running.

    Currently both are on "off" and the top actuator has to be skewed like that to get the water to the grotto. The way I do it is.. while the handle is turning, I put the toggle in neutral. Should I try the reverse setting tomorrow?

    I do hope the PB gets here before next week... we will dip back into the 30's, and the freeze alert is what drained the spa. (But not when it's in neutral.) If neutral is going to mess with my computer, I'd rather replace the actuator.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks James. I'll double check that next time for sure.
    Helen
    Dallas Area, 16,000 gal IG, Easytouch 8 computer, Intelliflo 3HP Variable Speed pool pump, Pentair Smart Pump 4x160, Pentair 3/4 HP Booster Pump, FNS 60 DE 60, Mastertemp 400, Rainbow 320, Dual Timer w/ freeze protection, Intellichor SWG, TF100 Test Kit, POOL FILLED AUG 3, 2012, ORDER YOUR TF100 KIT FROM http://tftestkits.net
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/under...ie-t49936.html

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