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Thread: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

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    Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Hello all,

    I am looking to replace my pump & filter soon as they are both getting towards the end of their useful life. The pump is starting to get loud and the filter has a (very) slow leak from the multi position valve. I could look into repairing / overhauling them but they have both been attacked by years of Florida sunshine and look brittle and worn out. I'm planning on staying in the house for a while (no plans to move) so I'd rather just replace the pump & filter a have peace of mind for a few years. I'm not exactly sure how old the current set-up is, but from the research I have done so far it seems the pump is a pre-1998 model so it's in the region of 20 yrs old.

    I do my own pool maintenance and am pretty handy with most home projects so I don't have any concerns about replacing the equipment myself - I'm just not sure where to start with finding good parts and verifying the sizing for my pool. That is what brings me here! Of course, I could go to my local pool supply store and ask them but like most people these days, I buy most of my "stuff" on line due to the convenience, extensive choice and price available from on-line suppliers.

    So, without going overboard on info, I will fill you in with as much as I know so far -some of this is duplicated in my sig. but I am listing it here for convenience:

    All equipment came with the house when I moved in in 2009.
    Pool: 29ft x 12ft in-ground 7ft deep end, 3.5ft shallow end sloped between the two. Marcite surface. Hayward Navigator connected to the skimmer port.
    Pump: Sta-Rite Dura-Glas model # P2RA5D 120. I think the motor has been replaced at some point. It is a Bluffton Pool Motor 1081
    Filter: Tagelus TA-50 sand filter

    All piping is 1.5" PVC - No unions anywhere it's all hard-piped in position (AARRGH) I do plan to install unions with the new equipment.

    The only maintenance / repair I have done since owning the house is tune-ups on the Hayward Navigator (feet, wings etc.) usually every two years and replaced the strainer basket which imploded a couple of months ago and let some leaves into the impeller. I cleaned out the impeller and re-assembled the pump with new o-rings.

    I'm open to any advice on brands of pumps & filters. I've had good results with the sand filter so don't see any reason to switch to any other type of filter unless there is a good reason why. I seem to remember a few years ago reading that Florida required any new pumps to be dual speed, but then it was revoked?? So any insight into the latest regulations will be much appreciated.

    I will attach a few pictures since they are worth 1000 words and I've already wittered on too long!
    IMG_0017(2).jpgIMG_0018(1).jpgIMG_0014(1).jpgIMG_0015.jpg
    Thanks if anyone made it this far, I look forward to learning from you!

    Dan.
    In ground pool, Rectangular 29ft x 12ft Approx 13,500gal. Marcite surface,
    Sta-Rite Dura-Glas P2RA5D 120 pump with Tagelus TA-50 sand filter. No heater.
    Pool cage and shade from house / trees - never gets very warm!

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Hi Dan,
    Welcome to TFP!

    I would definitely recommend a two speed pump. If you dont have any loar panels or spa, a 1 HP would be large enough for your size pool. Which is what you have now.
    All of the filtering would be on low speed and things like vacuum and chemical adding on high speed. Running low speed will save you a good deal of
    money on your electric bill. As much as 75% depening on various factors.

    One thing to mention, when looking for a new pump, they have options to have the speed switch built onto the motor, or not, and for the ones that dont have the switch installed, you'll have to supply your own switch and wire it up.

    If you like how well your sand filter works, then no need to change to any other type.

    Pentair, Hayward and Jandy are all good brands. I dont think you could go wrong with any of them. Personally though, I like Pentair. I just think Pentair has a better fit and finish than the others.

    Hope this helps,
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    ^^^^^^^^^^^ what he said. Go as big as you can with the filter. The bigger it is the longer you will be able to go without backwashing.

    With you redoing the piping to add unions it really does not matter what brand you get as far a fit.

    Good luck! Let us know what you decide on!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Dave,
    Thanks for your feedback, I started taking a look at some 1hp dual speed pumps. Man there are a lot of options out there!

    Not sure where to start, but found a Pentair and Hayward on Amazon. If anyone can offer some comments on either it will help.
    Amazon.com : Hayward SP2607X10 Super Pump 1-HP Max-Rated Single-Speed Pool Pump : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Or
    Amazon.com : Pentair 340042 SuperFlo High Performance Energy Efficient Two Speed Pool Pump, 1 Horsepower, 230 Volt, 1 Phase - Energy Star Certified : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden

    My current pump has a mechanical timer on the wall near the pump. To keep this I need the dual speed pump to have its own switch on the motor. Do either of these pumps have built in speed switches? I can't tell from the descriptions.

    Also, my current set-up has the Navigator connected all the time. Will this work with a dual speed pump on low?
    Thanks!
    Dan

    - - - Updated - - -

    Kim, thanks for your input. You posted your reply while I was typing mine

    I will look at filter options shortly.
    Dan

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    The Hayward pump is a single speed so that is out.

    If you read the questions for the Pentair pump you will see talk of a manual speed button. I will let you explore that more.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Dan,
    Yeah man, options abound. That why it will pay off to do a lot of quesion asking and online research to figure out what fits your particular situation the best.
    the hayward pump on amazon is single speed.

    The Pentair pump, as far as I can tell from looking at other websites has the switch built in.
    SInce you mentioned a timer involved, now the hard part.

    If you want to use a timer to switch the pump on and off at either high or low speeds? You may need to replace your timer, depending on what timer you have.
    or add another timer to what you have is an option to replacing your existing one.

    If you want to use the timer to select speeds, then you dont want a built in switch on the motor. The timer(s) itself would become the switch.

    The navigator wont work well on low speed. Those things need all the suction they can get.
    If you want your navigator to be running full time while the pump is running, then the 2 speed pump wont save you much. Especially with a 1 HP pump.
    But if you think you could tolerate less time the navigator is running, then you could use the timer to run x hours on High for the cleaner, then switch to low speed for the rest of the filtering time.

    Im not much of an electrical guy, so I doubt I could be of much help in determining the timer selection or how to wire a 2 speed to the timer(s).
    You can search TFP though for threads on others who have gone from single to 2 speed pumps just like you are considering.


    As another option.. but not the least expensive. (you may be able to get a rebate for as much as up to 250.00 from your local power company for this, you'll have to check on whats available with your utility company. ).
    Considering the extra cost of possibly having to change or add timers and wiring stuff for a 2 speed pump.

    Pentair and Hayward make smallish Variable Speed pumps which are super efficient. They cost more than the 2 speed, but considering the costs of timers, etc you might need, the VS price might be a wash, or close to it. Especially if you can get a rebate.

    With the for example 1.5 HP pentair superflow VS, you wont need any timers or have to re-wire stuff. It will be very easy install. The program in the PUmp Drive is the timer and can switch speeds on a program you set up. You can run High SPeed for the navigator and then will auto switch to lower speed after the schedule is finished. Plus they are much quieter than non-VS pumps.

    food for thought......

    Quote Originally Posted by dbeng View Post
    Dave,
    Thanks for your feedback, I started taking a look at some 1hp dual speed pumps. Man there are a lot of options out there!

    Not sure where to start, but found a Pentair and Hayward on Amazon. If anyone can offer some comments on either it will help.
    Amazon.com : Hayward SP2607X10 Super Pump 1-HP Max-Rated Single-Speed Pool Pump : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Or
    Amazon.com : Pentair 340042 SuperFlo High Performance Energy Efficient Two Speed Pool Pump, 1 Horsepower, 230 Volt, 1 Phase - Energy Star Certified : Swimming Pool Water Pumps : Patio, Lawn Garden

    My current pump has a mechanical timer on the wall near the pump. To keep this I need the dual speed pump to have its own switch on the motor. Do either of these pumps have built in speed switches? I can't tell from the descriptions.

    Also, my current set-up has the Navigator connected all the time. Will this work with a dual speed pump on low?
    Thanks!
    Dan

    - - - Updated - - -

    Kim, thanks for your input. You posted your reply while I was typing mine

    I will look at filter options shortly.
    Dan
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    OK,

    So after a consuming most of the day with searching for info on pool pumps & filters (I'm still confused!) I think I am still looking at the Pentair 34002 dual speed 1HP pump since Pentair came recommended here, and for some reason the dual speed Hayward has poor reviews on Amazon. For the filter I'm looking at the Hayward S244T:

    Amazon.com : Hayward S244T ProSeries 24 Garden

    This has a slightly larger filter area and max. flow rate than my existing Tagelus so this goes along with Kim's recommendation that bigger is better for the filter. The Tagelus is rated at 2.8sqft filter area and 50gpm with 225lb of sand. The Hayward is 3.1 sqft, 62gpm and uses 300lb sand.

    It looks like the Pentair pump comes with a speed switch on the motor which is good news. I'm thinking for the time being I can wire it with my existing mechanical timer and just manually switch between high & low speed as necessary. Maybe run on low 6 days a week and switch to high once a week to kick the Navigator into action. I can always upgrade to a dual speed switch/timer combination down the road if I forget (or get too lazy) to switch manually.

    I ran the numbers for pump sizing and with my 13,500 gal pool I only need 28.1 GPM for an 8-hour turnover. Best estimate of head pressure from the pool drain and skimmer pipes to the pump is around 42ft. Having said that, since the Navigator is piped to the skimmer port I wonder if I should add the length of hose to the Navigator too? I'm concerned that this pump might be too much for my pool, looking at the curve, on high speed with just over 40ft head, the flow is around 65gpm. I've read a few times that the max. flow for 1.5" pipe should be 60gpm and the sand filter is rated for 62gpm so it's up there. If I include the hose on the navigator, it increases the average head to around 50ft which reduces GPM to around 55gpm which is right where we need to be.

    I'm not sure how to read the slow speed curve since head pressure is lower due to reduced pumping losses with the lower flow, but in any case, the curve for 1hp goes up to around 40 gpm - considering I only need around 30 for an 8hr turnover it looks like running at low speed will work well.
    Curve.JPG

    While I'm at it, I will replace the old 3-way valve at the same time since it's siezed in position. I see Jandy has a new design that doesn't require lubrication so I will go with that and hopefully it will not end up siezed like the current one:
    Amazon.com : Jandy 4715 3-Port 1-1/2 to 2-Inch Positive Seal NeverLube Valve : Swimming Pool Filter Valves : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Before I take the plunge and spend $800 - $900 on all the parts (including misc. plumbing supplies), it will be great to get any feedback on these components.

    Oh, one last thing, does anyone have a tried and tested 1.5" union for installing the filter, or is a typical Home Depot union suitable?

    Thanks again,
    Dan




    In ground pool, Rectangular 29ft x 12ft Approx 13,500gal. Marcite surface,
    Sta-Rite Dura-Glas P2RA5D 120 pump with Tagelus TA-50 sand filter. No heater.
    Pool cage and shade from house / trees - never gets very warm!

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    If I was designing the plumbing I would have a flow meter in the pump discharge line and a ball valve to I could throttle the pumps discharge. That way you can control the flow rate. The two speed pumps make the most cents.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    OK, so it's a done deal. I ordered the pump, filter & 3-way valve this evening. Hope it all works out as expected, I will raid the plumbing section of Home Depot for the rest of the PVC pipe & fittings. Hopefully they have good quality o-ring sealed unions, if not, I will have to go with the expensive Spears unions on Amazon.
    Thank you to all who contributed with such useful information. WASP - I looked at flowmeters but it seems they need at least 20" of straight horizontal pipe to function correctly - plus space for the valve. I don't really have room and don't want to spend the extra money for these components, the project is already more expensive than I had expected. I hope I don't regret it down the road, but I feel pretty confident that the sizing is good and the installation will work out.

    I will post pictures & comments on the new set-up once it is installed. I had hoped to do the install this coming weekend, but I don't think all the components will be here in time, then I'm away the following weekend for a family function, so it will probably be a few weeks. Hopefully the old pump holds out long enough!
    Dan.
    In ground pool, Rectangular 29ft x 12ft Approx 13,500gal. Marcite surface,
    Sta-Rite Dura-Glas P2RA5D 120 pump with Tagelus TA-50 sand filter. No heater.
    Pool cage and shade from house / trees - never gets very warm!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Dan go ahead and get some o-ring lube. You can get it at a shhhhhhhhhhhh pool store. It comes in a tube. Some times Home Depot will have it. This will be good for all of your o-rings.

    For you PVC lines and unions--------draw it out, lay it out, etc before you cut! Don't ask my husband how he knows LOL.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Hi again Dan,
    I think you'll be happy with the new pump and filter you selected.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Help Me Learn about Pump & Filter Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Dan go ahead and get some o-ring lube. You can get it at a shhhhhhhhhhhh pool store. It comes in a tube. Some times Home Depot will have it. This will be good for all of your o-rings.

    For you PVC lines and unions--------draw it out, lay it out, etc before you cut! Don't ask my husband how he knows LOL.

    Kim
    This is what I used on my unions, pump lid and multiport o-rings (since I have a top mount). It only takes a very small amount and coats very well. Rather than lubricating your o-rings, I prefer to call it "conditioning." You only want just a little bit on there to have a light coat, keeping the o-ring flexible and prevent cracking. Wearing nitrile gloves when applying helps make it easier to spread and no greasy hands after.

    Amazon.com : Teflon Magic Lube for Gaskets : Swimming Pool Pump Parts : Patio, Lawn Garden
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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