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Thread: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

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    O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    I'm digging this weekend - so its time to get serious on picking equipment. 17'x44' free from 3.5' - 8' deep. Large baja ledge. Raised spillover 8' spa.
    possible sheer decent and/or bubblers.

    Tips, advice do's don'ts welcome.

    Here's what I'm thinking:
    pentair vs 011018 3hp
    sta rite sr400lp (not sure on this one - maybe the pentair mastertemp)
    sta rite s7m120 mod media filter
    1 intellibrite spa led light
    1 intellibrite pool led
    intellibrite controller
    pentair intellichlor
    pentair easytouch system
    paralevel water level

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    I am a big fan of my Pentair equipment, it all works great. Especially the Intelliflo pump. I love running my pump at 1100 rpm for skimming and making chlorine and using only 150 watts. It is usually recommended to use all the same manufacturer when using automation so everything can communicate properly. I would use a Pentair heater, but if not double check to make sure the Starite will work with the Easytouch.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkraning View Post
    Tips, advice do's don'ts welcome.
    You'll want at least one more light in the pool. I have two and due to the shape of my pool wish I'd either re-positioned one or gone three. I have all Pentair equipment and have been very happy.
    SUMMER 2015 BUILD IG gunite 38 x 31, 28,000 gal, 110' perimeter, Intelliflo VS, Whisperflow 3hp, Intellibrite LED x2, Clean & Clear 520, Screen Logic, Intelichlor 40, Quartzscape Blue, K-2006C, Speedstir, Aquanaut 400 (4 wheel The Pool Cleaner)

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    If you are getting the Easytouch, you should also get the ScreenLogic 2. It should be a packaged deal from Pentair, I don't know why they haven't done that yet. It allows for much easier programming and control of the pool from your cell phone and computers.

    I'd suggest the MasterTemp400 or the Raypak 407 heaters and the Pentair Quad100 filter.

    I'd also recommend the Easytouch/IC60 combo - 521150
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Not sure about your plumbing or cleaner options but I always recommend people get a separate, dedicated vacuum line even if they don't plan to use a suction-side cleaner (like the Pentair Rebel). This is because it is a lot easier to manually vacuum using a dedicated port than to fiddle around with skimmer attachments. You will definitely be manually vacuuming from time to time so having the port is a benefit and it costs relatively little to install during your build.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Sorry you had to see another post about ScreenLogic Matt. Have I left anything to imagination on my feelings about it?
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    Sorry you had to see another post about ScreenLogic Matt. Have I left anything to imagination on my feelings about it?
    No worries, Brian. But I am thinking of getting you a Pentair fanboy tee-shirt with a matching ScreenLogic ball cap




    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    I too like Pentair equipment, but you really need to nail down exactly what options you want in your pool and how it will be plumbed, and then buy the equipment to match.

    What size Intellichlor? My guess is the IC60

    Which EasyTouch do you want/need? The ET-4 can control three external circuits, or do you need the ET-8 which can control 7 external circuits. You can buy the ET with or without the SWCG power supply, I suspect you'll want the one with the P/S built in as Brian recommended.

    How many valves are you going to have and how many will be automated? You can also buy the ET with valves that are included in the package.

    Instead of running everything off the one pump, with all the valves necessary to turn your Shears, bubblers, and spa on and off, it might make more sense to have the shears and bubblers on a separate pump.

    Just throwing something out there for you to be thinking about. Good luck with your project.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    No worries, Brian. But I am thinking of getting you a Pentair fanboy tee-shirt with a matching ScreenLogic ball cap

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006

    Now you've piqued my interest! I assume that Matt isn't as big of a fan of the Screenlogic as Brian is? If not, why, may I ask? (Unless I'm opening up a can of worms better left closed! )
    28,000 gallon freeform, Stonescapes Tropics Blue Minipebble with abalone, 3.5' to 8.5' depth. 2 skimmers, 5 returns, dedicated vacuum port, Dolphin Z5 robot. All Pentair equip: EasyTouch 8, IC60 SWG, VS pump, 520 Cartridge Filter, 3 Intellibrites, 2 Color Cascade Bubblers. TurboTwister Slide and 8' Salt System Jump Board. TF-100. My Jan-Mar 2016 build:
    Waxahachie, TX Owner Build - A race to beat the baby!!

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    O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieP View Post
    Now you've piqued my interest! I assume that Matt isn't as big of a fan of the Screenlogic as Brian is? If not, why, may I ask? (Unless I'm opening up a can of worms better left closed! )
    Lest we hijack the OP's thread, I'll just link to thread we are referring to where Brian makes a very generous offer (in keeping with his very generous and helpful personality)

    Automating my spillway - Seeking Advice
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    So getting back to the issues at hand.

    You need at lest one more light in the pool two more if they are LEDs. They should be on the side facing away from the main seating area.

    Your filter is to small. Yea it may calculate out correctly. But the bigger the better with a cartridge filter. It will operate at lower pressure and have to be cleaned less often,


    Matt likes vacuum lines because if it all goes to heck and you have a bunch of algae they can be very very helpful. I'm not so sold that they are necessary. But, adding a vacuum port now is cheap and easy.


    I don't see a pool sweep. I suggest a robot. You don't have to run the pump and can just throw it in once a week for a couple hours and the pool will look great. Suction and presure cleaners require more pump time and so cost more to operate.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    You don't have to run the pump and can just throw it in once a week for a couple hours and the pool will look great. Suction and presure cleaners require more pump time and so cost more to operate.
    Not to take thread off topic, but it might help OP with their decision as well so I'll ask. How does suction cleaning require more pump time? Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I simply switch over from skimmers/drain to suction vac during my regular pump time not increasing my pump time at all. Am I doing this wrong?
    SUMMER 2015 BUILD IG gunite 38 x 31, 28,000 gal, 110' perimeter, Intelliflo VS, Whisperflow 3hp, Intellibrite LED x2, Clean & Clear 520, Screen Logic, Intelichlor 40, Quartzscape Blue, K-2006C, Speedstir, Aquanaut 400 (4 wheel The Pool Cleaner)

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by QingGuy View Post
    Not to take thread off topic, but it might help OP with their decision as well so I'll ask. How does suction cleaning require more pump time? Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I simply switch over from skimmers/drain to suction vac during my regular pump time not increasing my pump time at all. Am I doing this wrong?
    I leave my suction-side cleaner in the pool all the time and only take it out when we go swimming. I split my suction-side cleaner and skimmer flow at the pad using a 3-way valve. This arrangement does use more power because in order to get the suction cleaner to run well, run the spillway AND generate chlorine, I need to run my VS pump at a higher RPM. If I pulled out the suction-cleaner, turned off the spillway and only returned water to the pool with the SWG running, I can cut ~ my RPM's down by 33%.

    So yes, running a suction cleaner does typically take either more pumping speed (electrical power) and/or pump run time (depending on how good the cleaner is at cleaning). I can typically vacuum my pool manually in about 1/2 hour and get the entire pool clean. My suction cleaner can take several hours and not do as good a job.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Matt's analysis is correct. While my pressure side cleaner operates even on low speeds its more effective on an increased pump speed. But with robots you cut power usage even more and reduce pump run time. So your power bills go down and you (in theory) extend the life of your pump.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I leave my suction-side cleaner in the pool all the time and only take it out when we go swimming. I split my suction-side cleaner and skimmer flow at the pad using a 3-way valve. This arrangement does use more power because in order to get the suction cleaner to run well, run the spillway AND generate chlorine, I need to run my VS pump at a higher RPM. If I pulled out the suction-cleaner, turned off the spillway and only returned water to the pool with the SWG running, I can cut ~ my RPM's down by 33%.

    So yes, running a suction cleaner does typically take either more pumping speed (electrical power) and/or pump run time (depending on how good the cleaner is at cleaning). I can typically vacuum my pool manually in about 1/2 hour and get the entire pool clean. My suction cleaner can take several hours and not do as good a job.
    Ah, got it, you're right, I do increase my pump rpm to 1600 from 1150 when running my cleaner. So some quick math tells me based on my electricity rate I spend an additional .0858 cents a week/$4.46 a year running my vac cleaner. So in my case in terms of additional cost running a suction vac there really is none as my cleaner was $400 vs $1,000+ for a robot, and you still have to power the robot during cleaning. It will take a lot of years at $4.46 additional cost running a side vac to make up the $600+ cost difference between a robot and a side vac.

    That said, I REALLY wish I'd spent the extra money and gone robot (still would have installed the suction port) as my suction vac is a PITA to put in and out of the pool trying to get all the air out of the hose, having to reach in during the cold months and disconnect to empty the leaf canister and quite frankly, it sucks at cleaning my shallow end. Then when its out of the pool it and 20+ feet of hose are sitting on my decking and I have to worry about someone tripping over it, stepping on the hose etc. My neighbor simply pulls his robot out with the cord, wraps the cord round it's stand and wheels it out of the way. Looks super easy!

    So if I had to do it over again, even with the additional cost to purchase the robot I think I would have opted for the robot vs. suction vac. In terms of additional expense running a side vac vs. robot, in my opinion/case it's negligible.

    OP hope this information was helpful.
    SUMMER 2015 BUILD IG gunite 38 x 31, 28,000 gal, 110' perimeter, Intelliflo VS, Whisperflow 3hp, Intellibrite LED x2, Clean & Clear 520, Screen Logic, Intelichlor 40, Quartzscape Blue, K-2006C, Speedstir, Aquanaut 400 (4 wheel The Pool Cleaner)

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Great info all! Thank you.
    Question: so I'm thinking now, 2 led in the pool and 2 glowbrite by the steps. Does it matter visual/glare wise for the 2 big ones if they are on the same wall or oppose one another (1 on the north wall deep end and one on the south wall shallow)?

    I'm sure I'll have more questions. I really appreciate all the feedback!
    Nervous,
    BK

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    For me I do not like the lights where they will be shining into the faces of people where they are sitting (tables/benches,etc)

    Just something else to think about

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Hi,
    I am another Pentair lover. As one who sells and installs about $350K+ a year of it, I know a bit. For heater go with the Master temp. It is the exact same heater inside, just looks so much nicer and easier to get into later if any issues.
    I am a fan of that sta-rite filter. Down side over a Clean and clear+ is the huge filters. When that outer one is dirty it takes two to lift it out, not to mention the cost to replace down the line. I can buy three sets for the clean and clear for the same price as one of the sta rite.
    Buy the easytouch with the IC packaged for best price. Screen logic is a no brainer, and a must. Don't need a Intellibrite controller when using a easytouch.
    One VS pump will handle all your needs. You will need a electric valve CVA for each water feature so you can control them.
    Have fun.

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    Not to hijack the thread and since the OP is looking for advice, is there really any difference between the brands Jandy, Hayward and Pentair?
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: O/B starting, looking for equipment advice

    There certainly are differences but all of the brands are of the same quality. In my mind, the most important thing to consider (especially when using automation) is to stick with the same brand. Its sad that there isn't some sort of industry standard for connections and wiring so you could choose the pump, heater, SWG, etc of your choice.

    Its just like the Ford, Chevy, Dodge debate. All are reliable, similarly priced and will get the job done, it really just comes down to preference.

    I am a Pentair guy but that is mainly based on my level of comfort with their products. I wouldn't be opposed to looking into other brands (especially Jandy recently), but that would require me starting completely over to learn a new system.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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